Greetings, friends. Last week we shared this official coronavirus update and this related post from our CEO, Marian Goodell. This week, we’re continuing to gather critical information, reach out to our government partners, and seek guidance from experts. As you all know, there’s a tremendous amount of uncertainty right now.
Given that reality, we believe the prudent next step is to postpone our upcoming ticket sale. Registration for the “Main Sale” was scheduled to begin April 1, and the sale was set to take place April 8. Effective today, we are postponing the Main Sale registration and the Main Sale. We are going to gather more information over the coming weeks so that we can make a more informed decision. We have not yet set an alternative date for the registration and sale.
We understand you may have many related questions. We don’t have all of the answers (yet!), but we’re committed to continuing to communicate with you in a transparent and timely manner. One question we know many of you are asking is if Black Rock City 2020 tickets will be refunded in the event of a cancellation.
We are exploring every possible option for offering refunds if the 2020 event is canceled. Our terms and conditions state that tickets are non-refundable “for any reason,” but we recognize how unusual this situation is, and are sensitive to the financial insecurity many in our community are facing. At the same time, building a city in the desert requires year-round planning and preparation; we have dozens of permanent employees who work full-time creating Black Rock City. We also facilitate year-round nonprofit programming including Burners Without Borders, the Regional Network, and Fly Ranch. Issuing refunds would be challenging for our nonprofit, but we are examining all possible scenarios that would enable all of us to weather this storm.
You may also be wondering where your ticket money goes. The vast majority of ticket revenue is spent producing Black Rock City. Some of our largest expenses include staffing, fees paid to the federal, state and local government agencies, heavy equipment rental, and porta-potties (for more details check out this pie chart of expenses). That said, in 2012 the Burning Man Project nonprofit organization was established to make Burning Man experiences and values accessible to more people, in more places, more of the time. We are bringing the inspiration, creativity, inclusion, and yes, some of the funds, from Black Rock City out into the world. For more about Burning Man Project’s nonprofit programs and finances, check out our Annual IRS Form 990, more FAQ’s from previous 990’s, and our Annual Report.
Thank you so much for your patience and support during this time of continuous change. We know the idea of gathering together in Black Rock City late this summer feels like a beacon of hope to many of you (us too!), but we must prioritize our collective well-being and the health of people around the world.
Stay tuned for regular updates – we hope to have more information to share within a few weeks. In the meantime, if you’re looking for some inspiration for staying connected and celebrating Burning Man culture virtually, check out this roundup of stories. And if you’ve initiated or have heard about a great way people are coming together, share it with us here.
Header image: Box Office at Black Rock City (Photo by SN Jacobson)
With the main sale being pushed back, and if the event does go on…
How would this affect physical tickets being mailed out? Would it be further delayed? Would participants be looking at long lines at the Box Office, backing up traffic from Will Call into Apex which will lead to hellacious wait time to get into the city?
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It looks like so many of your questions are 10 steps ahead of any decisions being made. Sit tight and stay tuned.
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Any delay in ticket sales puts more pressure on Will Call should the event happen. Planning ahead for consequences of today’s delays makes sense.
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most prudent approach would be to provide emailed tickets as an OPTION, similar to airline boarding passes. You can get your book at the gate.
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I am so bummed this is my 50th birthday! I wanted to spend it here. Going alone to gain new Friends. Keep us posted!!!!
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Roger that. I’ve been recommending emailed bar-coded tickets for years. Like a voice on the dry playa I send out my cry. Maybe someday (like next year) they’ll listen.
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If our biggest concern by then is that we have to wait long lines at the will call, I’ll be the happiest person alive. Let’s not sweat the small stuff now, we have bigger issues to deal with first.
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What I am hearing is; If the Burn is canceled Direct sale and FOMO Dollars will be used to pay salaries for a year. Sorry for taking issue, but many of us have LOST OUR JOBS….SOOOO Fuck off and go sign up for unemployment like the rest of us.
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If you lost your job, going to burning man really shouldn’t be high on your list of priorities.
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Made a mistake. Meant to comment not report!! Sorry.
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How about staying positive. Most country are improving after a few months. The Burn is at the end of August… Surely we can have a smaller less structure event if the rest of the world is back on track by then. What do you think?
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Tony – what you are hearing and what they are saying are two different things. Bmorg are saying that the t&c say “non refundable” BUT they realise how unusual this situation is and that everyone’s financial security is unstable right now. That sounds more to me like they are NOT wanting to hold onto people’s money, and that they are considering issuing refunds. Maybe they will be partial refunds, with a credit towards a future Burn, or maybe they will set it up some other way.
I don’t see why they would hold onto DGS and FOMO ticket money and let everyone else off, because that goes against radical inclusion.
Keep in mind that most Event insurance policies stipulate that an event cancellation will not be covered by insurance if the organisers choose to cancel the event because of public health concerns. A lot of policies will only cover an event if it is forced to close because of circumstances beyond their control – in this instance, the government passes a law that says the event is not allowed to run. In that case, I would expect that everyone will get refunded because then insurance will cover the losses – but it may mean BMORG has to wait a while because the government hasn’t made any announcements about events running in August/September.
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I don’t believe that the world will be back to normal by August, after 3 months of a global pandemic, unemployment, loss of savings and retirement, foreclosures, long term health issues and hundreds of thousands if not millions of deaths. Many of my family and friends are already being affected by all of this. I’ve already had the virus, I was very lucky that it was only a mild case. Once I’m cleared and tested negative for being contagious, I’m going to get busy doing what I can to help my family, friends and my community. I think the rest of us should be making similar plans. Spending thousands of more dollars to leave all this behind for three weeks to do something as trivial, in the face of the current situation, as hanging out in the desert is at the bottom of my to do list.
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Tony, first you live in a fantasy world if u think the DGS and FOMO tickets are enough to fund BM for the entire year. Second, explain to me, in detail, exactly how the fuck unemployment is gonna cover the cost of my DGS ticket?
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Burny,
I have been to BM for quite a few times, but I also spend an incredible amount of time building the bigger art for the event. With everything on hold at this time, basically at the time when all build were in full swing, what do you expect at the end of August? RV parking lot for mere $475 with central caffe and fireplace in the middle of playa? For me, the most important part of the whole BM wasn’t only event itself, but the culture surrounding the art and building the city, not sure how this would happen these days.
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Although it states “Effective today, we are postponing the Main Sale” it doesn’t state whether the Main Sale Ticket Registration date window will also be postponed? Thanks!
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“Registration for the “Main Sale” was scheduled to begin April 1”. Note the past tense “was”.
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Thanks for the query, Gary. The Main Sale Registration has also been postponed. An alternative date has not been set yet.
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I’m showing up this year either way, but it would be nice to know that I have a guaranteed (paid by me) ticket for next year, should the cost of my ticket for 2020 turn into a donation. I do appreciate the situation BMORG (and the rest of the country) is in and would like for my feedback to be constructive… that said, if they keep the cost of our tickets bc they’re “not refundable for any reason”, to do so without offering priority tickets to 2021 is fucked. My 2 cents. For all of you who are bitching, but do not help to plan or build the city These are unprecedented times for which the BM community was built- pull up your big girl panties up and STFU- Get out there and use your skills to aid your neighbors and community to not only survive, but thrive, in these weird ass times. Your worth as a burner isn’t about the perfect playa outfit and getting the best shot at sundown, but rather how you rally to support your community when shit gets real. And if YOU CANT HANDLE THE TRUTH then no playa dust for you. Fuck yer burn sparkle ponies
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“Effective today, we are postponing the Main Sale registration and the Main Sale.”
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You will NOT just show up anyway this year. If Burning Man is canceled, I can GUARANTEE you that law enforcement (city, state, Federal) will be in high alert with blockades EVERYWHERE. You won’t get within 50 miles of BRC. And if you do you will be arrested. 100%.
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If the event doesn’t happen, then you need to refund the money. It’s as simple as that.
Alternatively, you should offer to give 2 tickets to next year’s event for each 1 FOMO ticket purchased. I would accept that.
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Aren’t we butthurt.
Typical elitest Burner.
How about you get over it.
SHIT HAPPENS.
You should have done your due diligence.
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YES we’re butt hurt, thanks for asking…and we are going to CRY….loud in fact! So fuck you and the fucking Sparkle pony you rode your snarky condescending ass in on.. have a good day you douche bag.
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That’s a very interesting stance you take my friend. Over the years we have steadily, and without complaints, paid more and more for tickets. On top of that our camp spends thousands more on putting the show together for the event. AND all the volunteer work we do amounts to hundreds and hundreds of hours. We absolutely should be upset that we are ask just suck it up and consider it a donation.
Most of us don’t give two shits about a world wide BM presents. Every since it turned non profit they have just made countless jobs for people in San Francisco. It’s a slap in the face to the people who created what makes it so great. They have lost focus.
Maybe they should sell Fly ranch.
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“due diligence” by that you mean a crystal ball. Hi crystal ball is there going to be a major pandemic in the year 2020? That’s realistic!
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I would prefer a realistic approach.
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A realistic approach is the logical thing and what is supposed to drive burner mentality to some extent.
However, some of the comments are deeply dramacle and at times hilarious.
We are all living in really weird times. That is never a time to falter and become more problem then solution.
I wanted to attend BM so bad this year, BUT I will simply set those funds back and save a little extra for next year… Surely by then Corona will have burned itself out and people will be amped and psyched for 2021.
For now bummed out, sad, but unthinkably optimistic.
BTW AUNTIE… (above comment) I accidentally hit report… I was laughing so Freaking hard at what you wrote!!!
No reply button on your comment, but Auntie, U ROCK!
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This is not how it works. We as a community have to stick together and see what’s the best solution for everyone in such a difficult time.
Maybe Burning Man is not for you after all.
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Come on now, I know we burners are sassy, but what about radical self inclusion? (rhetorical question).
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Meant radial inclusion* Not radical self inclusion! LMAO. Or did I, subconsciously? Haha. Idk anymore.
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OMFG! Why can’t I edit my comments?! I meant radical, not radial, whatever, you get it, hopefully.
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Okay Paul, sounds great! Check your inbox for a refund!
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And they should also give you some free kittens, too.
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Free kittens for everyone!! That’s the best idea ever :)
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Or baby tigers for all?
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Agree 100%. Anything less than full refund or roll over for next years event is unacceptable.
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You’re so right, it definitely unacceptable!
I trust you’ll stick to your principles and NOT come back.
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How would they pay of their overhead?
Would you rather BMOrg go bankrupt and we dont have a burn for years or never again?
If I buy a ticket, I risk losing that money entirely and I know it.
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never again sounds GREAT!
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Why are so many Burners ok with the Org, among all the companies furloughing people and making huge sacrifices, keeping our ticket money so they can just maintain all salaries at normal levels? They should be vastly reducing costs. If the event is canceled they won’t have much to do all year. Why should they all be paid 100% of their salary just to sit around? Temporarily lay off 2/3 of the staff, make pay cuts for everyone else, use the $12M in cash you are sitting on to pay only the bare essentials until we float to 2021 ticket sales, and refund our damn tickets!
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Dance, Exactly. Burning Man is forced to straddle the realities of the default world along with adherence to the ten principles. Bill’s need to be paid. I will attempt to score a ticket this year, but be prepared as well to being a contributor to future burns if the event is canceled. I’m the lead artist on a substantial piece scheduled for the playa this year. A significant portion of the build has come to a halt because our fabrication lead was called to duty in NYC. The project is in peril and it’s looking more like a 2021 installation. Additionally, much of the crew will be financially impacted by the economy. I’d like them all to be witness to our art on playa. So much is up in the air now. )'(
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I’m confused. I looked up when tickets were first sold and that was February 28 I think. WHO said Covid-19 was a world health concern the end of January. You must have known it might be canceled. Well, it’s not canceled yet but for the world’s sake, I hope it is.
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People had the same access to the WHO classification as the bmorg and could have chosen not to buy tickets; personal responsibility.
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I’m confused. I looked up when tickets were first sold and that was February 28 I think. WHO said Covid-19 was a world health concern the end of January. You must have known it might be canceled, buying tickets was a gamble. Well, it’s not canceled yet but for the world’s sake, I hope it is.
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Chill out, and try to understand the difficulty, and reality of the situation. Can’t you see BM is already trying their best? You should have read non-refundable when you bought the ticket.
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OF COURSE the ticket price would need to be refunded. Otherwise it’s fraud. You can’t sell tickets to an event that doesn’t exist.
Imagine if you told the Fyre Festival producers- “it’s so simple guys, all you needed to do was print ‘no refunds’ on the tickets and no one could sue you, you could keep all that money for yourself! There couldn’t be a single lawsuit.” How well do you think that would have worked?
And Burning Man should have more integrity than the Fyre Festival.
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That’s true. The terms and conditions are ridiculously broad and get bm out of every possible scenario. No other business Or event could get away with it. That said half or more of current attendees are deafening music ravers, druggies, rich plug and play types, trash leavers and parasites that don’t create or contribute. Fuck them and I hope they lose their money. Bm org will probably do a partial refund. At least the nimby Nevadans who don’t value tourist dollars will be happy.
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Agreed. I will be reporting my transaction as fraud if I don’t get my money back. Stealing from people during a world health crisis is disgusting. Not in line with the 10 principles we hold dear to our hearts. BMorg has a chance to do right here. Stop being greedy and cancel the event and give us our money back. If you don’t have the money to pay your employees, that’s your contract, not our. I feel bad for those employees who need the money either, but like everyone else experiencing the same crisis, there are other avenues to remedy that. If you don’t refund the money, yall will be nothing bur FraudOrg.
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How can you have FOMO for something that didn’t happen? Lets wait and see what the they decide. So far all they have done is announce they are postponing the main sale. Everyone is jumping down their throat about getting their money back. If you read the statement is says tickets are non-refundable and that this is a unique situation. Lets see what is decided before you push your bike over and storm off into the dust.
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before you push your bike over and storm off into the dust.
Love that line!
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Why would they guarantee 2 tickets for each 1 fomo ticket? That’s taking away from everyone else who would be left out because those tickets are gone. Best approach would be either a refund, or ONE guaranteed ticket for 2021 for each ONE ticket.
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Great decision! I can’t imagine how difficult all this is to navigate for this team. Thanks for your efforts!
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Exactly! I am SO glad I don’t have to make these difficult decisions now. Having said that, I will be bummed if I have to eat $1200 in DSG tix.
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I feel this was the only correct move as the time for the sale was coming way to quickly for many to make the leap of faith.
Too many ‘unknowns” and to few resourses right now. namy not even sure if they are getting a paycheck in the next few months.
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Well, if the event is cancelled, I’m going 2021anyway!!! I don’t want BM to cancel, but if you do, just make my 2020 tickets valid for 2021 and I’ll be alright with dat!!!
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If the event is canceled, I’m going this year as well.
Whether I’m by myself in the desert or surrounded by other nut cases, I’ll be in BRC this August.
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If it’s safe to travel, my husband and I are planning to fulfill a dream of hiking in the Black Rock Desert if Burning Man is cancelled for 2020.
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The small towns on the way to the playa can’t handle visitors that can bring the virus (and anyone can be an asymptomatic carrier). Especially the Paiute residents, they dont have a lot of medical resources (they have one clinic). If stubborn burners pass through (buy gas, food) they can transmit the virus and burden those residents and communities. Please wait until next year. For the BM neighbors.
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I’ll see ya there.
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Completely agree!
Happy not to get a refund and instead the ticket to be honoured next year!
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Since directed group sales are to the most loyal members of the community, anything but a total refund of tickets (if the Burn is cancelled) would be an unforgivable breach of faith in these circumstances.
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Agree completely. I get that there are various hurdles to simply issuing a refund, but to stop the main sale while telling DGS folks “read the ticket not our problem” would be a terrible move. There should be total clarity on this point from ticketing right away.
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Totally agreed. We are not plug and play sparkle ponies holding tickets, but those that keep the cultural fabric of BRC authentic to the principals. Don’t mess with us. We are all hurting and we understand the fixed costs the Org has even if the event does not take place, but us, DGS ticket holders, should not take that hit. If cancelled do honor our tickets for next year or risk loosing whole swaths of your dear cultural core.
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Yeah, what he said!
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Unfortunately some of these “loyal” members are already trying to offload their DGS tickets to random folks on FB groups.
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Selling DGS tickets to ANYONE else other than another person within the same camp is a breach of rules, and would disqualify the seller from all future DGS purchases. Just saying. Whatever the refund/no refund outcome, let’s not sell our tickets to outsiders; this will only complicate things–especially if they become worthless. Besides, NO TICKETS HAVE EVER BEEN ISSUED, so–as several responders have pointed out–Burning Man has never fulfilled its side of the transaction and, if the event is cancelled, would likely be held liable for full refunds in any legal class action.)
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Its not even just that. Class action lawsuits resulting from failure to refund ticket purchases would be very expensive for the org. I understand the need to “keep options open right now” and that includes stating a the possible position of “no refunds under any circumstances per the purchase agreement” but if the tickets aren’t issued after collecting fees then this represents fraud (since issuing tickets is part of the sales transaction) and if the tickets are issued for an event that does not exist that also represents fraud. Damage from lawsuits and issues with chargebacks and other breached merchant agreements will be very financially damaging (beyond the tremendous loss of good faith in the community that you are describing) and the org should instead come out with a statement reducing anxiety and creating good will.
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I wish more of us could drop deeper into the lens of burner principles given the situation rather than getting wrapped up into legal & transactional technicalities. I like to think of the Burning Man ticket cost as a gift to the project. Gifting does not contemplate a return or an exchange for something of equal value. I think most of us can vouch for the time at Burning Man to be priceless. I trust that Burning Man Project will do all that they can, and if circumstances prevent an on-playa gathering from happening in 2020 then trust that the funds contributed are a gift to the magic makers that will be invested well and returned in other ways to all of us in vast and immeasurable ways. You’re entitled to make the most of any situation, I encourage you to do it without coercion, pressure or threats, but rather with an open mind and open heart welcoming the magic that wants to happen, believing in the power of immediate experience.
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I have DGS. Just wanna put it out there that, assuming it is canceled for 2020, I think we should offer refunds or deferrals. I would gladly take a deferral. Thank you <3
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Recognizing the financial hardship involved with cancelling this years Burn, essentially trying to survive on minimal resources, I’d have no problem receiving a refund in 50% range. We are retired, and live on a fixed income in the $60,000 range, but believe it is important to support the Burning Man organization in their time of diminishing financial resources.
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Regardless of refunds, I’m sure the nonprofit would happily take your donation.
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Shorting us artist/creators, who have lost work due to this, so you can plan the event or receive anything near normal salaries seems unfair. I need to pay my survival expenses over attending Burning Man. 20-year burner here, please consider who your base is & how tight we budget to make it there each year. Thank you & health to all.
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P.S. Do very much appreciate the communication & transparency.
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It’s out of integrity to charge for a cancelled event. Even if refunds can’t be made, the 2020 tickets would need to be good for the following year. Even The greedy airlines are granting 12 month credits for non refundables.
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You do realize that the airlines are getting a bailout from the U.S. Government right? Last time I checked NONE of the people in the BM HQ were getting bonuses, stock options, or fat on the hog benefits. Trust me, EVERYONE is in this together.
NO ONE could have forecast this.
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The logistics of the event, pre-event, and post-event are pretty crazy. Then there’s the FT staff at BM HQ, and yes, the many of us that invest in this event to make it brilliant and insane. If there’s a refund tax, I’ll happily pay. There are real costs already committed by BM Org that simply don’t go away. A non-refund would be sad, but I’d be back in 2021 as I have been off and on for more than a decade.
We’re all going to take a hit because of the unexpected and unforeseen. Already friends have had this disease and a couple will die, perhaps more. I truly hope we’re safe whenever the next Man Burns. I’ll be there.
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Sylvia Brown forecast this…
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They do get bonuses.
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There is an easy, built in way for the government to “bail out” the Org. They need to stop seeing themselves as entitled to remain employed at 100% normal salary during a year when there won’t be an event to create. Furlough themselves and let the government pay them unemployment instead of paying themselves out of our ticket money.
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Perhaps some would accept partial refunds, if they wish to support the BMOrg. If BMOrg’s major profit-making activity doesn’t happen this year
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I appreciate all of the transparency we are getting at this point, thank you for all the effort you are putting into this process!
One thing that I’d like clarification on:
A non-refundable ticket when the ticket was purchased to gain entry to an event means that I can’t get a refund if I don’t attend the event. Does it really mean you can cancel the event and not give a refund?
I’m pretty sure that is “Services Not Rendered” and is not allowed by VISA/Mastercard service agreements. You can’t just take a purchase for a service and decide arbitrarily that it is now a donation.
Happy to be corrected if I’m wrong here!
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You’re absolutely right. In an earlier comment I alluded to the damage that would also come from both class action lawsuits and merchant service agreements. Not offering refunds for tickets that have not been delivered is not a real option (its simply not tenable) and it would be better for the org to get some good-will by recognizing this and letting people know that acceptable solutions will be found even if they don’t know what these will be yet.
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Allow me to sparepre you the retainer. You have no lawsuit.
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I disagree that there is no lawsuit. As a legal professional.
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It’s a hard decision to make. Pay staff to keep the event rolling or return ticket sales and have no funding for staff. A no spectators event is hard to have without some staffing. Percentage wise there are more volunteers out there than staff. I believe if the community comes together and we all volunteer our time for free even staff members there will still be a a future for The Burn.
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I appreciate the difficulty of the situation, and all the efforts of BM and the BM community. I’m a 19year burner and I well understand the rules and regulations as clearly stated in the back of your ticket. However, it seems to me that “for any reason” would still imply the event itself is going on, and I’m choosing to not attend, thereby keeping my money would make sense. If the event isn’t happening and BM is still keeping people’s money, that doesn’t seem like it’s in integrity. And I would also wonder about the legality.
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Well said.
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If the event is canceled, refunds should be offered, with an option to donate a portion of the ticket cost. Our camp, for one, would not seek refunds (and would donate 100%) to keep the org afloat. I’m sure many others would chip in as well. I think we all appreciate how tight the budget is and how little there is in reserve.
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The org in 2018 had 14,449,672.00 in liquid assets and the salaries are taking up 36% of the revenue in 2018. Since we will not have anything from the pharmas until the end of the year, cancel and keep the costs down. Some may have to go on UI, like many of the burners, until this ramps back up. The execs should take a pay cut to work from home to maintain what is a necessity and roll the tickets forward so that we don’t take liquid assets out. This should be about public health, not money at all!
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If we can’t meet to burn this year, send a call for donations. We’ll answer. It doesn’t matter if we skip a year or even two before gathering with our Playa families, what matters is that our community and the people enabling it (all of us, incl. the BM project and the people making it run) keeps on going and stays well.
Others have postponed ticket validity for large scale events. If we as community can help cover some of the year round costs through donations or extra cost “solidarity” tickets next year, it should do. Or this naive?
Let’s meet next time we can and let us support the common efforts in any way we can.
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Hey Comms Team,
Thank you for this. Cant tell you how much, ‘”We don’t have all of the answers (yet!), but we’re committed to continuing to communicate with you in a transparent and timely manner.” is refreshing and appreciated…
best
Mrs Fishkin
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That would be very magnanimous for Burning Man to refund tickets. I accepted the terms non refundable when I got the ticket. I also accepted, but not likely, I could die there in lieu of all the living that gets done. Any portion of refund in my view is completely voluntary by the organization, I accept that and hope it all turns out best case scenario.
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Thank u for the communication about the situation. It is challenging. I’m still anticipating the event happening as planned. If it doesn’t, let’s work together to find win/win options for tickets already bought. We are all on the same team.
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Thanks for the response on this! Is there any adjustment to the Placement Survey as the result of this?
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If by Placement Survey, you meant the Placement Questionnaire form, please see my response to Horst below.
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Many of us in the Burning Man Theme Camp arena are deep within the red danger zone for this virus. Even if this event goes on this year, is it a wise decision for us to gather with 70,000 burners from around the world? This is what we are debating now. Personally, we would be happy to hold on to our tickets until 2021 when we have a better idea of what we are facing. Let BM use our money for this years “younger” crowd & extend tickets for next year. A win-win for everyone.
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The data I’m seeing shows this virus doesn’t exempt the young.
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How about having even more expensive and more plentiful FOMO tickets available with the understanding that if the event is canceled, any partial refunds would cover the cost of low-income ticket refunds or most of). The balance being that if the event goes ahead as planned, maybe there is a larger contingency of individual big spenders (and the potential cultural effects that come with that), but if the event does not take place, the most vulnerable of our community is not hurt disproportionately. Ask those FOMO folks to accept the greatest risk. Not sure what to do about DGS as I’ve never personally taken part, but I’d think asking them to shoulder less of a risk than main sale ticket buyers would also be fair, perhaps in a similar way as the FOMO/low income balance.
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Talk about commodification…
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I think most of us could accept our tickets being applied towards 2021 if 2020 is canceled, but it would be really crappy to fyrefestival the core Burners who bought in good faith through directed group sales. Maybe ticket prices will need to be raised for 2021 to share the burden fairly among ALL attendees, rather than just dump it on 2020’s DGS.
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safety third bro
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DGS group sales are pretty much the core group that make this event happen year after year. Most were there previous year, and will likely be there next year (and many every year after that). If the event does not happen this year, just automatically reissue our tickets already purchased to next years event (2021). That way you don’t have to worry about refunds when money from DGS has probably already been spent/allocated to something else.
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As someone who bought the maximum allotment of two DGS tickets + one vehicle pass for my camp, without planning to go this year and assuming the tickets would be bought and used by campmates as per usual — I would be SO happy with a refund of just ONE of those two tickets. I will happily swallow the cost of a single ticket and vehicle pass. Would be a great option for many of us who were willing to front the funds.
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I would be happy with using my ticket next year if the event is cancelled. Those who cannot afford to hold onto their tickets from this year could sell them to peeps who can pay and use them next year.
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If Burning Man was a for-profit festival like Coachella, then I would certainly feel entitled to a full refund if the event is cancelled. But BM is a very different thing, we are creators and community, not merely customers.
Two things are clear:
1. many of the tickets already sold were bought by people on tight budgets who could suffer financially if their ticket is not fully refunded.
2. even if this year’s event is cancelled, the BM organization has significant ongoing expenses that must be paid for, if we want the org to stay afloat for next year and beyond.
To me, the best solution is to give full refunds, and then meet this year’s expenses through donations from burners (including me), arts organizations, and especially the deep-pocket private-jet crowd. I assume that many costs will be reduced or avoided if the event doesn’t actually take place; this will help to some extent.
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I’m not sure I get this argument about people suffering financially if their ticket isn’t refunded. Are there people who make money by being able to go to burning man, who will lose out on some income if Burning Man is canceled? Yes, we will all suffer culturally, emotionally, relationally and perhaps even spiritually and otherwise, but I hope not financially (except for OSS, but I don’t think that’s what we’re talking about here). And yes, I get that the whole economic downturn is especially hurting artists and other burners, so in this situation, it would be especially nice to have a refund if possible. So, let’s be radically self-reliant and work to find other ways of filling the emotional, spiritual, relational and cultural gaps that are emerging as various regional burns are already being canceled and the prospect of Burning Man being canceled looms. Caveat Magister has already offered some ideas about how to do this at the philosophical center!
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Burning Man IS a for-profit event like Coachella!
It is just that the profit goes towards a non-profit organization which spreads the 10 principals across the world.
Burning Man should have some kind of insurance if the event cannot happen to cover some of their cost.
Also non-profits can ask for grants through the CoronaVirus stimulus package.
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From a balance sheet aspect it costs you less money to forfeit your ticket and not go then if the event is on and you go. This is what many burners are too stupid to understand. When you go you buy the ticket, travel costs, food and supplies, camp dues, cost of building your camp and art, lost wages from not working if employed, etc etc. the ticket and car pass is a small part of that.
For many Americans bm is just as expensive as traveling internationally.
That’s why poor pathetic burners begging for cheap or free tickets are idiots that don’t understand finances. Although if not working, receiving unemployment , driving Localy and doing it cheaply camp less then the ticket is a big part.
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All these complaints… “The BORG better refund DGS or else” “we are the fabric…” the fabric of what exactly? If you are the fabric act like it. If you don’t go to Burning Man you will save at least a thousand dollars, if not more. It’s only a $500 ticket. I’m so grateful I got a DGS ticket and for what Burning Man has provided me and my playa family and friends. And if they do cancel
I’m going anyway, which could be the best year ever. Guns, fireworks, no LE, no speed limit… wait…
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“Only $500”
You are the problem.
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it’s just money who needs it any ways? Said one that pays their rent paycheck to paycheck 50% of us are working stiffs that survive each week by going to work even missing a few days with a cold messes up the whole routine. Cutting back on groceries or just being able to enjoy some of life’s amenities. So saving up all year for an event to provides social comfort is a chore. So yes $500 is a lot!!
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OK, we’ll sit tight… Finally free of the 9 to 5, wanted to go home this year, but I can wait… because I’d rather do a burn in the front yard than help soread a repeat of the 1918 pandemic. So yea, we’re disappointed, but we’re cool…
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It would be helpful to know if there is a way that some of us can make donations to the org to help weather this storm, and enable refunds to those who need them most.
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Hi Lauren, you can make donations here: https://donate.burningman.org/
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Not a difficult decision in regards to dgs ticket refunds. Just do it. The difficult decision is how org will move forward with this years loss. Just like all businesses. And the general public for that matter. No reason only the dgs buyers, who make the event happen for no charge, should be the ones to take a hit! Can’t believe it is even being discussed!
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I lost my job and receiving the refund would mean I could pay my rent for one more month. I’m just glad to be alive for now, burning my desires.
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Why not take a year off and regroup next year . We would hate to have covert19 rebound and have Burningman be the blame . That would end it for ever. I think it would be best for the Burning man community to become part of the solution by helping however possible . We need to gain Government and social trust for our future Burns . Not be labeled as reckless ..Much Love
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This is a good step towards cancelling, which is the right thing to do. This isn’t just going away like the flu.
The ORG should cancel this year’s event and give people one these ticket options:
1) Roll their tickets to 2021
or
2) Be refunded the face value of their tickets
* The ORG should setup a 2020 gofundme (or something similar) to allow us to help them cover this year’s overhead costs.
* Reduce overhead by cutting back on hours/staffing
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When discussing on how the Org might handle this situation, a camp mate had an interesting idea.
The Org should determine how much money they could refund. Then state, given how difficult this situation is and how planning goes, a lot of the money has already been spent. We have a pool of money available for refunds, because we know how much the ticket cost can effect our community at this time. How much of a ticket price hit can you take, so we can prioritize fully refunding those of our community that need it the most.
Then each burner can make that value cost themselves.
If the total asked for comes out to larger than the Org allocated for refunds, everyone gets a percentage of what they asked for.
Just thought it was an interesting idea I hadn’t seen floated around yet.
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I’ll say this…
If refunds are not given for the cancellation of this event, it sets a legal precedent that other events can follow. If a concert event cancels, refunds are usually given. Should the Borg cancel and offer nothing in restitution, they better be prepared to fight several class action lawsuits that may bankrupt the event entirely.
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see also LIB
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I don’t go to that…and it’s in my city.
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You do realize that large events, concerts have insurance in case the event doesnt happen for this very reason, If BMORG didnt take out insurance for this event to pay for everything then they need to fire the person running it, Im betting they do have insurance…
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test everyone at gayte.
the tech will be available by then en masse.
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It’s not just about BRC, think of all the towns you pass on the way to the playa. And before that the airports. Think of all the stops you make to get food, gas… it’s one long journey of transmission to those workers and residents.
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This comment is why the show cannot happen this year. See you in 2021 (hopefully)
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Thank you for the update, communications is always appreciated. Can also appreciate the difficulties being faced by the org no matter what happens.
To those commenters worrying about refunds – why don’t you try worrying about not dying from COVID-19 first?
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If I charged my tickets but haven’t paid the credit card bill yet, should I not pay the bill? Is there really a chance Burning Man can happen this year? I’m so torn between not losing the money and thinking how cool a smaller BM camp could be. Love and health to all.
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Please don’t travel there for an unofficial event. You would be exposing the residents in the small towns on the way to and from the playa. Including the Paiutes, who have only one clinic. Please don’t burden them for a bit of fun. Would be completely irresponsible.
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Those are all public roads used every day by the residents and public. Those counties aren’t completely shut the rest of the year. Stay at home orders will be lifted before August. The communities need revenue to survive as they barely survive now. Based on China covid will be nearly or all gone in US by July. And very few will actually drive to playa without a bm event. Like 1000 spread out over 100 square miles.
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For the DGS tickets, I’m thinking as Camp Daddy that rather or not BM refunds these tickets, the camp will use its cash on hands to refund one of the tickets purchased by our fellow campmates.
Thank you burning man for making the right decision to postponed the main ticket sale.
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Bought my FOMO and even donated another $100. If cancelled how about priority in line for next year? That doesn’t lock me in, still have to purchase and my situation may change. I may not be able to attend. However, a small gesture like that would go a long way.
I so want to argue Safety Third, but not with this. This is a s&%t storm on every level physically, emotionally, mentally, spiritually, financially, economically and more. We need each other more than ever. We need our outlets to express ourselves, to vent our feelings, and to heal with one another. I could use a hug (how’s that going to work?) But we need to do what is right. Just as there was a “plea” for camps to take a year off and allow others in, maybe we all need a year off. But I need this. I hope it goes on as planned but I/we understand the situation and we will survive to burn another day. Bring me home!
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Are you also considering to push out the submission deadline for camp placement applications? There is no point in going through the full application process until we have more clarity if the event will happen.
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As of now, the deadline remains the same. We have a tight production schedule for reviewing, mapping, etc so 4/30 is the latest it can be. Any postponement would put our volunteer team in a bind from the sheer workload and production process. Let’s see where we’re at in a few weeks and determine if we need to change course.
My advice would be to submit a questionnaire for your most minimally viable camp. We understand that it’s a strange time and hard to plan with such uncertainty, but we are operating on assuming it will still happen for now. I think it’s much better to promise what you can than to overpromise. Work with the campers that are most willing to envision things in this time of uncertainty, and propose what you can with those that are willing. Should it look more certain that we will be able to hold the event, you can always update your questionnaire with us after the deadline as long as you’ve submitted an initial one.
I also think it’s perfectly fine to decide to call it yourselves and decide not to attend this year, or not to seek placement. You will not get penalized by Placement for deciding to take a year off, which seems to be a misconception out there. Open camping is also an option that we always remind and encourage people to consider – and may work better for people who can’t commit by the questionnaire deadline. If we are able to hold the event, we inevitably will be treating this year and camp standing differently than if it were a typical year.
We have also considered what a significantly smaller city (and number of placed camps) might be like, what the Burn would be if infrastructure and scaled back (both provided by Burning Man Project and by theme camps), and what if we had far more open camping than placed camping. They are interesting scenarios to consider, and might even bring us back to the scale people have nostalgia for.
But right now, until further notice, we are staying course.
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Two things:
Best solution for tickets is allow those who can afford it to roll over this year’s tickets for next year; and for those who can’t afford it, to facilitate sell back through the STEP program for others to purchase.
If the event is cancelled this year, a lot of people will want to head out to the playa anyway. Expect the BLM to have something to say and do about that.
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Winston Churchill said it best bro, “it’s a mistake to look too far ahead, only one link in the chain of destiny can be handled at a time.” Lets just focus now on taking care of one another, staying well, and see what happens…
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If the next link someone’s Chain of Destiny is trying to make rent and buy food because they lost their job on two days notice, knowing whether they get a $500 refund so they can plan how to hold on to their situation is pretty important. And also knowing if their plans for employment building Burning Man projects for the next 4-5 months are gone as well. There are a lot of super important core people for BRC who make a living building the art and infrastructure for the Burn and camps who will need to make a Plan B ASAP if the burn gets cancelled. Addressing those concerns equitably and quickly would be taking care of each other.
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The CARES act just passed which means the SBA is making available loans to business and non-profits to cover payroll, overhead etc. A large part of those loans will be forgiven.
Perhaps BM can take advantage of that to help cover their overhead for a few months, just like many other organizations will be doing. That would make it easier to refund ticket money already collected if 2020 is canceled. Maybe raise prices in 2021 to offset the cost of running operations during the year off. I think most of the community would be OK with that under the circumstances.
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I’ll be buying a ticket regardless and don’t expect a refund or a rollover. Even if BM paid their staff zero dollars in the coming year, it would *barely* cover the cost of cancelling. Plus, the people I know who work at HQ are artists and non-profit workers, who can scarce afford to lose paychecks. I’m willing to eat a ticket for the sake of *having* a Burning Man.
Lots of people here are expressing rage at the organization. I challenge y’all to propose solutions as well.
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I completely get how much of a financial hardship not getting a refund is going to cause some Burners – particularly to those who unexpectedly lost their jobs. How about if we refund anyone right now – or for a certain period of time – say the next week – who request a refund. Those of us who would “hang on” would then be the only ones in danger of losing our ticket price (plus vehicle pass). And, by not requesting a refund we are agreeing that we understand there is a chance we will possibly be donating our amounts paid. The people who received a refund could then regroup for next year when they would be more financially not stressed out.
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Thank you for this! Additionally any ticket purchases not refunded might be able to be considered as a charitable contribution. I will happily not request a refund to support the event and the artists that spend many hours creating the infrastructure.
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Thank you SO MUCH for this informative. We support you and appreciate you.
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This is when the concept of “community” kicks in.
Things are scary enough and we have political chaos that is further dividing us. Keep things in perspective and let things settle out before losing tempers.
Stay home, stay safe and trust that smart folks are looking for the best outcome for all. Just give them a little space to work the problem.
Let’s behave like the Burners we are.
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Well said. The brain trust for Burning man has been doing this event successfully for 34 years – overcoming a lot of different obstacles. How about we give them a chance to come to a reasonable resolution.
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In this article, there is this:
“You may also be wondering where your ticket money goes.”
It doesn’t go to a pie chart. It isn’t in suitcases full of cash in your offices. There is at least 15million from the DGS sale. What financial instruments are being used to gain interest? I see as of today, the best money market is 1.8%, not a lot, but what harm could transparency be?
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19.5millionif you count tickets and vp.
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According to their 2018 IRS 990 document, in Section XI line 10, after total revenues and total expenses, the BMorg posted end of year net assets or fund balances as being $27,772, 267.
Does that sound like an organization hurting for cash?
I understand operating budgets and cash flow and the BMorg has legitimate expenses to take into consideration, but the bottom line is this, what does any of it actually mean if you don’t take care of the community that is the reason the BMorg exists in the first place? I expect they will come up with the best solution they can knowing that if they seriously damage their relationship with the community, the future of BRC many hang in the balance.
Most of us are willing (even if reluctantly) to give the BMorg the benefit of the doubt, until they give us a reason not to.
No trust, no city, no burn.
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The number is misleading because it includes assets that aren’t liquid. The cash amount is much lower.
I mean, they’re going to issue refunds. It’s just, are honorarium artists going to get their grants? Probably not. Are they going to fire a bunch of staff? Probably.
Hopefully the Payroll Protection Program and private donors can help keep the non-BRC programs running.
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Dig deeper. $5M + in the bank, liquid, “CASH”.
Now do you get it?
The org isn’t broke.
The org and its employees will not suffer if the event doesn’t happen.
Jezus people. THINK!
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hope you will be able to refund the tickets already purchased in the DGS ticket sale. with no income, that money is greatly needed by each of us…..thanks
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There are MANY Burners who are millionaires, and even a few who are billionaires. Why don’t one or two of them they step forward NOW and offer to purchase test kits for EVERY ticketholder (a reputable German test kit firm supposedly has laboratories here in the USA that could likely supply them), and make proof of a clean, recent test mandatory for all who wish to enter the gates of Black Rock City? Yes, it may seem draconian, but these are extraordinary times. We have a unique chance to create a completely insular city from scratch! Of course, once within, everyone would still need to be wary. But perhaps I’m only dreaming. (See Edgar Allan Poe’s 1845 tale “The Masque of the Red Death.”) Oops!
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You mean instead of using those funds and much-needed test kits on the countless medical workers, at-risk groups (immunosuppressed, pregnant, older people), and the critically ill across the US? Not only does that look bad, it is bad.
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Of course, my idea was half-assed, and only a momentary musing. But any money spent on such test kits for Burning Man would need to be MATCHED by funds spent on the very items you listed, for those in need. I had only hoped to stir up a new conversation….
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I would appreciate either a refund (full or partial maybe a handling fee or something similar) or roll the tickets to 2021. I think many buy tickets even though the disclaimer says no refunds the thinking is if I cancel or don’t attend not if the event cancels.
I’m fortunate that my tickets don’t cut into my necessities but it doesn’t mean that I’m willing to donate that amount. If no refund perhaps the price could be made into a donation that I could write off. It’s a tricky spot to be in but my guess is the Feds won’t let 80k people get together when we probably will just be coming out of the worst of this.
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The survival of the ORG should not be solely put on the shoulders of DGS ticket holders, the ones already with a strong burden of bringing camps to the playa.
The ORG could start a GoFundMe the moment 2020 would be canceled, and broaden the the number of people to ask for help. That is true communal effort.
It would also allow folks with very strong financial background to contribute stronger than just the the price of their ticket. Then, AFTER a fundraiser, DGS tickets could be refunded as much as possible.
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Let’s just take it all back full circle and have 10-person Leave-No-Trace events scattered at random locations all across Nevada. That’s about 8000 effigies, plus or minus. No permits required. We promise to keep 6 feet social distancing between us all. Good luck to all federal, state and local governmental agencies trying to police that.
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People doing this will expose rural small town residents to the virus. Those people don’t have a lot of medical resources, and cannot endure a outbreak. For example, the town of Nixon on the way to the playa has one clinic. PLEASE don’t be so selfish that you put those residents and gas station/foodmart workers at risk. You might think it’s worth it, but they would disagree.
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Further to my earlier post, with 48 million acres of public land in Nevada and thousands of miles of dirt roads, many ad-hoc camping spots can be created or found miles away from civilization. No need for BMORG, tickets, or permits if you find the right spot and follow the 10 Principles of BM. The main event has grown so big that it is impossible to be held without institutional and government involvement and permissions. Either agonize over the prospects of cancellation by those whose control your life, or create your own event by camping in isolation. I wonder how many tickets the founders sold and how many permits they obtained when they first started out. Radical self reliance doesn’t require agencies. There are ways to find freedom in an unfree world.
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Again, you get to those remote places by moving through remote communities (who have scant resources to get infected by tourists). So stay out. Care about others lives more than your vacation. Thanks.
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It’s interesting how dumb so many comments are, reflecting the laziness of not actually looking at Burning Man’s financials. Burning Man has this thing called “expenses” and this other thing called “revenues.” Some expenses are “fixed”, like rent. Some are variable, like compensation. There are liabilities and there are assets. Burning Man doesn’t exist without staff, so compensation can’t be zero. Burning Man can’t gaze into an organic, GMO-free vegan crystal ball and predict the future. There is a statistical distribution of possibilities and they are surely weighing them. Cancel prematurely and you might nix a Burn that could have proceeded. Nix to late and you’ve incurred avoidable expenses. It’s a judgment call. When all is said and done, Burning Man must be financially responsible so it continues as a going concern, period. If it doesn’t then Burning Man ends. Got it? No sparkle pony pixie dust gratitude-infused visualization gonna change that. So — shut up and let them do their job. Because they have vastly more information than I do or you do. They will do their best. If you don’t like the result, hey, check out Disneyland.
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Word!
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How many of you read the email that was sent to DGS ticket purchasers? Taken together with the Orgs post here, I am of the opinion that the main sale will be cancelled, Burning Man will be cancelled, because Org doesn’t have the final word, that belongs to the BLM and State of Nevada. No refunds will be given to for DGS tickets, and we will be all making a donation to the Org. If I’m wrong and it happens, I’ll see you fuckers in the dust, if we get refunded, mine will be donated to a local food bank. I wish you all well, be safe, be healthy, and wash your fucking hands.
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One more vote for forwarding DGS tickets to next year. It’s going to be pretty much the same pool if people anyway…
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No refunds under any circumstances… though isn’t it implied that the event actually takes place? If the event is cancelled, I don’t see how refunds could not be issued. Many of us are in no financial position to donate $500 to BM org, especially given that we are now threatened with losing income and or our jobs in the very near future due to the pandemic.
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Good point! Why does an event that isn’t even going to take place suddenly need “donations?”
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Dozens of year-round staff. Some may need to be laid off. A million UI claims already filed in CA this month. It’s not against the Principles to run lean if you anticipate revenue loses, is it?
Yes, this whole thing sux.
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I have DGS and want to be as supportive as possible. If event is canceled tickets should be roll over to next year, plus we all ( DGS and regular sale ) should pay few more $$$ to cover the extra expenses for BM.org. I am happy to help ;)
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Burners who say that they “will just show up anyways” if the event is canceled aren’t true burners. A friendly reminder of the principles of civic responsibility and communal effort. Settle down and get your heads out of your tutu.
Even in the very unlikely event that law enforcement didn’t stop people from getting remotely close to BRC during burn week, would you honestly want to be that person who doesn’t give a fu to put people in surroundings communities at risk? Don’t be that sparkle pony. A year off from the burn won’t kill you, but covid-19 definitely can do the job if you insist.
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Thank you. The Paiutes (in Nixon) have one medical clinic, and don’t have the resources to endure an outbreak if stubborn burners pass the virus to them on the way to/from the playa. And the other towns you will pass through don’t have the resources either. Anyone thinking of this: you will be endangering small town residents for a bit of fun. This makes burners bad neighbors, and the stubborn interlopers bad humans.
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Your heart is in the right place, but there are hundreds of people with coronavirus in Reno already. Everyone in Nixon will have been exposed to it long before August.
A lot of those small businesses depend on BM for much of the money they make all year, and cancelling will destroy their livelihoods and subsequent health and wellness.
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To those saying “it doesnt matter because covid19 is already in NV”…are you kidding me?? You think because there are cases in some cities and towns, it gives you the right to spread it everywhere, because what the hell? The Pyramid Lake Paiute Tribe doesn’t yet has a confirmed case and they are taking measures to keep it that way (not issuing permits for recreational use to non-tribal members, increased sanitation measures at their store, etc). So stay home, stay out of rural towns and communities – they don’t want your germs. The impacts of the virus would DECIMATE those communities – much worse than not getting some cash at their gas station. (See earlier post from tribal member saying exactly that.) Come on!
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Birder what in your expert opinion and experience make you know that this deadly plague will exist in August? You’re implying that for 12 months the poor natives of Nixon must be quarantined and the highway that runs thru it shut. Wrong in both counts. They can just close to all outsiders and refuse to serve them. Your guilt is paternalistic and patronizing. They can make their own decisions. But out unless you’re an elected leader. Also they won’t be an army of cops blocking anyone if they aren’t getting paid all their overtime to be there. Bm is a cash cow and the teat that blm and cops suck from. The rest of the year there’s one blm ranger and one deputy patrolling, which is enough for the tiny influx that might show. You’re promoting hysteria and nimby ism.
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We are all in this together!! Hang in there. Try to Be a Burner!!
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So, a ticket and vehicle pass are ~$600. Divide that number by 192 hours in the Burning Man week and you come up with $3.13 per hour at The Burn. I can’t speak for everyone but that is really cheap, in my opinion, to be able to be who you want, when you want and how you want. Add in the relative joy of interacting with your community by giving and receiving pleasure and I say that is priceless.
Sadly there are a number of people that are crying that this will hurt them financially, and it is a sacrifice for many of us, but whether the Burn happens or not we spent money to participate. It is not an investment in the usual sense, it is an investment in our and the planet’s future. There was never any monetary gain to be made and, in the end, what we have really lost is a year with our tribe. And that can never be replaced.
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Most don’t spend 192 hours there and you forgot the other 400 hours of preparing building packing traveling both ways and then cleaning and unpacking. You must fly in to a plug and play camp.
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i just spent way more time reading this suck hole of comments than the actual post… lol
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Well who cares what Marian says, she has proven time and time again what she truly cares about. But then again, she is a CEO her job is to make money. She does not care about you burners your camps, she only cares that it brings in money. THAT is why they are CEO’s DUH. Why do think she never addressed the plug in plays. Because they bring in MONEY. If Marian has to pick between delusional burners refunds, and her paycheck. I guarantee you it will be her paycheck. She might have to revamp BM because of many people being angry. But then it will ONLY be for the elites. Because they have the MONEY. BM as know it, is officially over.
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As a small business owner, I’m struggling to keep getting my 6 employees a paycheck, even with diminished revenues. As a camp lead and DGS recipient, I’m being asked to help keep the BORG afloat. What’s next, being forced to contribute to the tanning fund of the orange asshole Trump?
These are some strange times, and if the virus don’t get you, the financial burden will. Remember, we’re all in this together, and hopefully we’ll come out of it stronger than ever. Let’s take a year off and regroup in 2021. Just please tell me sooner rather than later, so I don’t have to waste hours filling out the dreaded camp application form. The vision for 2020 is far from perfect.
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Has anyone explored whether BM 2020 could be pushed back 4 or 6 weeks to late Sept early Oct 2020? Rather than just thinking about holding the event in late August or canceling it.
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I was wondering why nobody has suggested this yet.
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Have you ever been on playa when it rains? No way BM can be held outside summer months. You could have 70,000 people stuck out there with no way to get them out.
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Sounds like you went on with the FOMO sale just to get money to cover your overheads, which makes me question the ethics of the team behind the event in the first place… An option to roll over to next year or to get a full refund next year when you get your finances under control will be perfectly acceptable, but “no refund because your T&C says so” is not – it is honestly so disrespectful how you even refer to your T&C in the letter which was supposed to issue an apology.
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We were just told to expect a mass dying of some 200k or so fellow US citizens. The peak of this outbreak is expected to be in the next 14-21 days and then the rate of infection is expected to flatten out. That sounds like an expected loss of hundreds of thousands of US lives in the next few weeks or months. And that’s the best case scenario!
HELLO! I no this is hard for to accept but the world has changed and not going to be what it was. And that’s all based on the facts we are given being true and not any worse than what we’re being told.
I’m guessing Burning Man will not be a good idea for the next couple of years at best! ♂️
That said, give their efing money back!
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2020 will be canceled and 2021. Unless there is a cure to the virus. The disastrous mortal disease known as the Black Death spread across Europe in the years 1346-53. Covid19 can go on for a few years…
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There is one troublingly unanswered question here. DGS went on sale week of February 26th. FOMO sales mid-March. Anyone with a brain in their heads could have seen that the event was at risk of cancellation. Italy went into lockdown February 23rd. February 25th was the first case of ‘community spread of Covid-19’ in the USA. This same day Pence was put in charge of the response. Why were these sales not postponed too? It would appear that the signs were ignored so that much-needed money could be brought in for wages, etc. The linked statement mentions ‘experts are being consulted.’ Experts back in February would have pointed to the situation around Europe, within China/Asia, and pointed out how the USA was woefully unprepared to contain a pandemic. So in effect, it looks like the Org decided to let these sales happen so they would have a whole bunch of unofficial loans from Burners. That explains the silence on everything up until this last week. This is worrying, to say the least, as they now have y’all’s money to take care of their own wages, whilst you all have to wait until they decide what to do next. As transparent as the linked statement suggests it is being, it hangs its hat on the increasingly unlikely chance of the Burn happening, as a reason for not giving concrete answers. If the Org wants to be transparent, they should say NOW what ‘every possible option for offering refunds’ actually means, and they should tell people every single possible eventuality that they see might happen in these uncertain times. Got to say, that it seems like they are stringing the community along with this statement. Maybe someone there could start by explaining why those earlier sales weren’t held up?
FOMO sale, btw was 18th march. That was 9 days before Mrs Goodell first told us there were plans being announced on Monday this week. It seems awfully close to the current postponement. It’s almost as if they were waiting to get a certain $$$ from that sale before announcing this.
A cynic would say that this has been handled in the worst way, and that taking the stance that they now have your money and it is ultimately at their discretion whether to return it, is tantamount to fraud.
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THIS
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Yep.
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Not a loan, my dgs tickets and yours, have become a gift to the Org.
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OUCH. BMORG, do the right thing.
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Exactly. Sounds like embezzlement to me.
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THIS
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I can’t justify just burning the ticket costs, even in part, but if the tickets and vehicle pass were made good for 2021 so that Org staff can get paid and keep their jobs right now and I still get to attend and support my camp next year, I can make that work.
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Not going to happen. They would then be in a worse position in 2021, having no money from 35,000 DGS tickets and then having to make the event happen. There will be no refunds, and your tickets will not be pushed to next year. They will never be mailed.
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Wow! This is such a great representative sample of Burner ideologies. Hope our sociologists and historians are taking notes. Makes me glad we operate as a happy anarchism on playa, as it would be difficult if not impossible to come up with a system of governance that allowed our level of divergence and radical self-expression to result in any coherent outcome.
Good thing we have BMORG to make decisions for us…or in the case at hand, to delay making decisions!
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This is beginning to remind me of the sh*t show a few years ago when the BORG introduced the ticket lottery and many of the most devoted, committed burners didn’t get tickets. After the BORG realized that the event could descend into chaos and suck, a solution was figured out to get key people tickets. The uncertainty left a lot of key burners (basically the DGS peeps) stressed and upset about the the whole process. Could the people in charge please just figure this out as soon as possible and make some calculated decisions? And maybe take care of these same key people who may get screwed again? No one ever has perfect information, and it doesn’t look like anyone, including the state and federal government, have any idea what is going to happen over the next 6 months. Decide on a course of action ASAP and execute according to the 10 principles.
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As a Pyramid Lake Paiute tribal member, I would ask all of you to be respectful to our land, our culture, and our People. We should not have to face the risk of exposure of the corvid-19 to our communities. This should be an easy call for the Burning Man organization. CANCEL THE EVENT. I understand there will be the financial decisions you must make….. but the moral and ethical decision is very obvious…….
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Thank you for posting. Burners passing through put all the local residents at risk. BMorg and BLM should cancel this event. And to all the burners still planning to go for an “unofficial event” if BM is canceled, they should be ashamed of themselves and stay at home. Hopefully the highway will be blocked to all non-residents. If people go, they burden all of the towns, communities, residents along the way. Reckless and terrible.
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So no trucks using I-80 to deliver food or fuel until at least September 2020, got it.
You realize how many people would starve to death under your plan? Do you know how many locals depend on BM for the bulk of their annual income?
Plus, everyone will have already been exposed to coronavirus by August.
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Hey Gary, again… the impacts of covid19 on small rural communities with limited medical resources would be FAR WORSE than missing out on cash from you buying gas this year. *And you gotta love the white man mentality of telling a tribal member (original comment) that their opinion doesn’t matter and in fact you know what’s best for them. Gary, your comment is reminiscent of white settlers giving Native peoples disease-ridden blankets. Check yourself.
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Sf birder is a patronizing racist fool
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Idiotic hysteria. Pyramid lake is a long way from Gerlach and black rock city. Most burners don’t stop. Those that do get gas. Which can be bought at the pump. The services can be stopped for non residents. There are drivers on the highway year round. The NIMBYs like birder want BM cancelled permanently. Covid will be over by August.
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BMORG. This. This comment above should be all you need to cancel the event.
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Face the facts folks. Burning Man is a wash for 2020. Anyone who thinks otherwise is delusional. First off, Black Rock Desert is controlled by the Federal Government under the Bureau of Land Management.
A permit is required for this event to take place. No permit, No Burning Man.
WAKE UP and smell the dust. And if this pandemic isn’t under control soon, you can forget about it next year too.
Welcome to your new reality.
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BMORG. My 14 year camp is not nor ever has been a plug and play. I am not a billionaire, nor are their any in the camp. Our gift to BRC has always been the incredible theme camp we bring. We cannot afford to make a gift of the $ from the tickets that our camp just purchased. If you keep that $, we and many, many of your long time theme camps will be screwed. Camp dues have been collected. A lot of that $ has already been spent. Shipping and infrastructure and many other things have already been bought and paid for. If you roll over 2020 ticket $ to 2021 we too can roll over our DGS campers till next year. If you grab the ticket cash we and many other of your long term theme camps will be forced to fold up. Please keep this in mind while you make your “decisions”.
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Good call on holding off for awhile, until the landscape is less uncertain. But the best course does seem to be cancellation for 2020, rollover what’s been paid to 2021, etc.. Thanks!
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lol burner butthurt. how am i supposed to get laid if burning man is cancelled? THIS IS MY LIFE!! … should go back to selling tickets at headshops on the santa cruz mall.
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Keep in mind that most Event insurance policies stipulate that an event cancellation will not be covered by insurance if the organisers ‘choose’ to cancel the event because of public health concerns. A lot of policies will only cover an event if it is forced to close because of circumstances beyond their control – eg. the government passes a law that says the event is not allowed to run. In that case, I would expect that everyone will get refunded because then insurance will cover the losses – but it may mean we all have to wait a while because the government hasn’t made any announcements about events or outdoor gatherings of more than a certain inner of people running in August/September yet. Bmorg May even choose to postpone the event to October, like a lot of other events have chosen to do. Hang in there everyone, it’s still at least 5 months away! :)
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If we end up not getting refunds, can we get non profit donation receipts? I’d like to deduct this off my taxes!
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On March 20, 2020, there were 93 cases of Coronavirus reported in Washoe County Nevada. As the pandemic continues, expect the Sheriff and Nevada officials to not allow us to enter the area. Reports are a second wave of Coronavirus will hit in September. There is no cure, there is no vaccine. Stay home until 2021. Burn Local.
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I would think ‘non refundable’ means if the event goes on and you are not able to make it? I feel like the right way to go about this would be to refund everyone and THEN set up a public donation where they could ask for help. You would raise a lot more money that way.
I don’t think you should be plucking out ‘donators’ without any consideration for what thier financial situation may be imo. Personally I purchased a fomo ticket because getting a ticket was so stressful last year and I didn’t want to put myself through that again. Global pandemic wasn’t something I considered when I splurged on a FOMO ticket/donation. Now I’m getting ready to go on unemployment for the foreseeable future.
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It seems a lot of people think FOMO tickets are just the wealthy going to the head of the line. But as you indicated, planning a vacation from work, gathering supplies, lining up places to stay along the way, as everyone knows is a lot of work. The first time I tried to get tickets in the main sale I couldn’t, they were gone in minutes. Fortunately the FOMO sale that year was after the main sale. I think last year was the same, and main sale same results. So in order to help with my OCD around planning, I just go with the FOMO tix so I can plan accordingly. I don’t think the FOMO ticket buyers should just be told oh well and everyone else get a refund because the FOMO’s can afford it. As JK says everyone’s financial life is in strife. I would rather BMORG cancel the event, refund the tickets and ask the community to donate so that 2021 can happen. It would be the right thing to do rather than just cancel and walk away with everyone’s money, money that a lot of people likely need now. I suspect that the plug and play camps and ‘millionaires and billionaires’ that swoop in for their Instagram photo opps aren’t participating in any online sale.
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I think the most just option regarding a refund… in order to attend BMOrg needs with the tickets money …they have to provide an option to the buyer…. if they want a refund… o a roll over to the next burn…
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Kind of glad.. Could finally use a break and not feel FOMO. :)
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Options and Optimism:
1) Defer or Cancel Burning Man: Thanks BM for keeping us in the loop. My number 1 suggestion, is that you apply for Federal Aid through the SBA program being offered (if that’s available to this such organization). Then, defer these ticket purchases by DGS or Advanced Ticket Sales to 2021 BM. Then slightly raise the price of tickets and car passes 2021,2022,23 or until you raise enough extra capital to pay off the SBA. Simultaneously, you’d have to make cuts to operating costs and seek donations/fundraise like the rest of us in our default world here.
There are enough lovers or the Burn that you could raise millions just on a request campaign alone.
2) It would be a good opportunity to reduce the size of Burning Man (finally), at least temporarily. Make it 20,000 people max this year. Get all the fundamentals back in place, de-commodify big time, and adhere strongly to the principles. A wonderful chance to reset and forever change the public perception of BM (how it should be). Since there is no refund and no Force Majeure clause in the fine print, just put Burning Man on this year, with a much smaller staff and smaller crowd. Restructure as mentioned above, and ask for donations from the worldwide community to help BM restructure to emerge from this whole and viable. My two cents.
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No one is thinking of the local residents and communities that are put at risk from thousands of people passing through. It’s not a safe or fair burden on those rural locals at any size (70K or 20K or 1K). You travel through and buy gas, food, stop to use a bathroom – you put them at risk. Just cancel it.
The Pyramid Lake Tribal Gov issued a state of emergency. They don’t have resources to handle getting sick from virus-laden burners. Not 10, not 10K.
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Agree 100%
Don’t but the “real” tribes in jeopardy!
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I totally agree with you birder
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There’s only one ticket solution that seems fair to me ~ the Org can keep my $600 DGS ticket money, but give me ticket access next year. I will purchase a 2021 ticket! Burning Man ticket access is more valuable than money.
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Here is how another non-profit that had to cancel shows across the US is handling it. I hadn’t requested a refund but a change of date as I had two events reschedule for the exact same night. This is a painful time for all and I wish everyone health.
Dear Patron,
You are reading this email because you requested a refund for the Shen Yun performance
ticket(s) you purchased. We will process your request as quickly as humanly possible.
This is an unprecedented situation and has created enormous financial repercussions for us, the
presenter of Shen Yun performances in the Western U.S. As a non-profit organization, we don’t
have a contingency budget to handle civil emergencies of this scale. We rely on ticket sales to
support the events and our patrons are our biggest supporters.
As you may know, Shen Yun is a New York-based performing arts group dedicated to reviving
5,000 years of genuine, traditional culture that’s been mostly destroyed in communist China
today. Despite its global success, Shen Yun has been the subject of constant interference by the
Chinese communist regime since its inception in 2006. Consequently, we have to try even
harder to succeed in the performing arts industry. If you want to donate your ticket(s) and
receive a receipt for tax deduction purposes, we would be very grateful for your generosity.
We are all in this pandemic crisis together. We do feel the pain you are experiencing and will do
everything we can to help. On the other hand, the option to receive a gift card for 120% of your
original purchase amount is still available. You may attend any performance in the Western U.S.
presented by SFFBSA.
Please note that direct credit card refunds by issuers can only be done if your purchase was
made within the past four months; otherwise, you will get a refund check via regular USPS mail
to your address on file. Refund checks may take up to eight weeks to arrive due to the large
volume of requests. Send us your updated mailing address via email if it has changed or you are
unsure which address you used during the initial purchase.
The ticket refund will exclude the processing fees which were incurred during your ticket
purchase transaction. Nonetheless, please do let us know if you are in a dire financial situation
such that the refund of processing fees would be important to you.
Regardless, we want you to keep up the faith and stay healthy so that we can all walk together
towards a better tomorrow.
We wish you all the best!
Sincerely,
SFFBSA, Presenter for Shen Yun
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Seriously??
REFUND the tickets in full. Cancel it for this year.
There are people dying.
Oh, wait…..let’s all get together and spread the virus so we have a new pandemic start in September.
Stupid.
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If you don’t refund tickets at least honor those purchased for 2021!
But the right thing to do is give people their money back! People need it to live!
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First…good decision. Second…I’m afraid considering gathering 70,000 people together in a small space…especially considering the close contact between strangers embodied by the event…is irresponsible. Even if global cases fall during the summer, BM could turn into the Petri dish for the comeback of the virus. It is irresponsible to hold the event unless a vaccine is found or a successful treatment is developed. Third…I would like to thing the Org has been responsible and put money aside for a contingency like this, but I’m realistic. You probably won’t come up with a ticket refund policy that will please everybody and keep the event financially viable. Please do the best you can and act with integrity with the well being of the community in mind. I trust you. Forth. Under no circumstances should you consider the financial health of Burning Man in your decision to cancel the event or not. Fifth. Be well.
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Thank you for all that you do, I will sit tight and I look forward to hearing the decision. This year would of been my 8th year and my 1st year with a camp. But as an events producer I understand all that you are going through and support the BMORG to make the best decision for all involved.
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Wake up…
The world will not be back to *normal* by the end of August.
Summer events across Europe are canceling or postponing.
Some countries have announced all coastal beaches and towns will be closed for the summer.
We’ll have massive casualties in the US and communities will be in shambles. Many people actually on furlough will be laid off permanently.
It would be VERY selfish, to say the least, going partying for a week while the world around us, OUR world, is suffering in unspeakable ways.
We have to prepare to put our resources and efforts to recover as a society from the post pandemic and tRump catastrophes that have befallen upon us.
See you all in 2021.
For now:
Save Yourselves.
Save Someone.
STAY HOME.
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Your ticket dollars at work. Copied from the 2018 Form 990 (page 64):
(1) NANCI O. PETERSON $166,254.00 SECRETARY
(2) MARIAN GOODELL $292,541.00 DIRECTOR/CHIEF EXECUTIVE OFFICER
(3) HARLEY K. DUBOIS $240,178.00 DIRECTOR
(4) DOUG ROBERTSON $194,337.00 DIRECTOR OF FINANCE
(5) THERESA DUNCAN $207,598.00 DIRECTOR OF PHILANTHROPIC ENGAGEMENT
(6) RAYMOND ALLEN $203,168.00 GENERAL COUNSEL
(7) HEATHER GALLAGHER $199,950.00 DIRECTOR OF TECHNOLOGY
(8) HEATHER WHITE $192,793.00 MANAGING DIRECTOR
(9) KIM COOK $194,652.00 DIRECTOR OF ART AND CIVIC ENGAGEMENT
(10) CHARLIE DOLMAN $179,459.00 DIRECTOR OF EVENT OPERATIONS
(11) SILVIA STEPHENSON $166,231.00 WEB PRODUCTION MANAGER
(12) MEGAN MILLER $157,600.00 DIRECTOR OF COMMUNICATIONS
(13) STUART MANGRUM $151,993.00 DIRECTOR OF EDUCATION
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>?
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Money is more important than lives, amiright? Who said that recently? Someone at the White House… who was that again?
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Those are middle class salaries in San Francisco. Not out of line for the job at hand.
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THIS. And no, these are NOT standard middle class incomes for the bay. Especially for a NON PROFIT. They are paid well…again, for a non-profit, which customarily pay people less, because staff are doing it for the love of the organization they work for.
I refuse to feel sorry for the org. They have a LOT of cold hard cash in the bank. Look at the publicly available tax form which outlines everything. Not to mention, some of these comfy salaries are for far less than full time work. How does that make sense? Did someone sneak in a cronyism principle??
Their hesitancy to cancel the event for 2020 is selfish idiocy.
Let the layoffs begin.
Link to tax forms outlining the financials. Facts are your friends:
burningman.org/network/about-us/public-documents/2018-form-990/
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So DGS ticket sales and Vehicle Passes = 19 million dollars taken in. And then the FOMO sale (4000 tix @ $1400) = $5,600,000. (I assume they all sold).. Means BMOrg is playing with $24,600,000.00 As posted above, the salaries = 2.5 million. Of course – there are other expenses already spent….But – all expenses should stop right now – just like the main sale stopped, just like our country has stopped, just like our lives have stopped. Being generous, this leaves 15 million dollars? Which is a pool to organize refunds to people who spent their hard-earned money in good faith. I am just not prepared to donate $600 to BMOrg in this moment – I am in a personal financial crisis right now, and I am going to assume there are others like me. Please – if there is any way we can get even a portion of our investment back asap, I would be eternally grateful.
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Hi guys!
My first burn was in 2006 and it inspired me and made me deeply happy like nothing before and since then BM always has big space in my heart. Let me share my personal feeling about this ticket issue: What if this crisis is happening to remind us all of what is really important? For example to love all beings, speak the truth of our hearts, hear our inner voice clearly, follow a path that is not harming anyone and protect Mother Nature much more. Imagine you are coming from this place, how would you solve the ticket problem? If Burningman will not take place this year, everyone involved in this, organizers and participants who really love Burningman and mean the 10 principles, should just ask themselves honestly what they personally can afford to help the whole project to go on. How much do you really want it to happen? Do you still believe in the idea of it and is it important enough for you to support it and may it be with 1200,-? What else would you do with that money and does that have more value to you than keeping BM alive? It’s fine if that is the case, just connect with your inner voice and listen to it’s advice. So long story short: why not install a system in which everyone can apply for how much from 0 to 100% he wants back of his money? People with more income could donate the money this year and yeah why not get a fixed ticket next year (but they have to pay for it, the budget will need it). And people who need there money back to feed hungry kids get it all back… and all people in between can choose and for example just ask half of it to be returned? I think burnerhearts are big enough to deal with it this way so that nobody comes out of this angry and with a lack of motivation to celebrate together again next year. I wish you a lot of energy and community and time to calm down and breath to get through this year as good as possible. Xxx Christina from Vienna
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One of the problems is that most burners don’t give a shit about a global Burning Man. A ton of money is wasted on this. Just focus on the yearly event and it wouldn’t have the need for an office in SF full of takers I started the same year as you and saw how fat the BORG got soon as it turned “ non profit “ I willingly kept paying the price to be a part of it. But to suggest that we should just buck up and support them is a joke.
They should care more about the people who actually created the magic
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The Olympics was cancelled. But somehow Burning Man is jiiiiiiiiiiist going to make it right?
Just cancel it already and lets enjoy the chinese virus pandemic which is a once in a lifetime opportunity…….
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The DPW workers that came(with more on the way) out here to gerlach from all points to work on your Boxes, Shipping Containers and what not, need to be sent home right now…
We see them coming into town and hear them on the radio…
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Sent home? DPW are professional couch surfers. BM is their couch for a quarter of the year. The couches they came from are already occupied.
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Yes, sent back to the dirty couch before this one on the list…
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Report them to the authorities. Won’t they send them home?
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Burning Man 2020 is fundamentally over. It’s going to be a safety issue. Let’s not forget the Liberty Loan parade of 1918 in Philadelphia,10,000 people died in the city due to the spread.
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***Overheard*** by Burning Man DPW members at Bruno’s today (attempting to hang out at a “take out only due to COVID-19” place)..
“Only Trump supporters and Boomers get the Corona Virus”…
No really…
Get out of here…
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Typical.
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If the Government won’t allow 10+ people in a room, do you think it will allow 70K people at this event? It’s over for this year 2020 and maybe 2021. Gov, Steve Sisolak will not let this event happen on his watch.
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There are valid reasons for DGS and FOMO ticket holders to complain. BMOrg has not been transparent nor have they provided timely updates. Just as they see what is happening now, they had an inkling about what was happening a month ago when DGS tickets were sold. They could have postponed that sale if they truly wanted to be prudent. Certainly continuing with the FOMO sale was in bad faith unless they were certain that they would guarantee organizing and holding (unless shut down by government mandate) the 2020 event. Yet two days later they issued the first wavering statement about Burning Man 2020. It gives the appearance of selling tickets just to insure that their business expenses were covered for the year.
While they do have some fixed expenses there are many expenses that could be mitigated, even payroll. You do not need to pay a staff that has no work to complete for this year. The rest of us have been subject to layoffs because of this pandemic. The support of their outreach non-profits is wonderful but not necessary and certainly much of that could be postponed. It is not acceptable to say that they collected money from us so that they can use that money to sustain their charitable projects. Just last week they said they would be issuing funds this week for art grants. Really? The rents for San Francisco and Gerlach offices are 2 million a year? They need to find a lower rent because someone is bending them over.
Burning Man is a business with all their eggs in the one basket of holding an annual event. This kind of dangerous business model should have cash assets to cover at least one years’ worth of expenses to be prudent. They in fact do have an unknown cash reserve from 2019. They are suing for millions to be refunded from the BLM for what they deemed was over charges that were paid for through ticket sales but if recovered won’t be refunded to those same ticket buyers. There is event insurance that may or may not be able to exclude this crisis. They have land and assets that can be used as collateral to acquire loans. They may be eligible for stimulus loans. They could sell off Fly Ranch. There are many things that could be done to lessen their financial burden in order to do the right thing. Just on the face of it, selling tickets to an event and cancelling said event within a month or even two of collecting the money without honoring the tickets for refunds or a rescheduled event is wrong. Have they looked into rescheduling for the end of September as an alternative?
Continuing to issue statements that say “We are exploring every possible option for offering refunds if the 2020 event is canceled. Our terms and conditions state that tickets are non-refundable “for any reason”,” is an absolute insult. They can not tell us that in the one month since the DGS sale that they have had enough expenses to justify a no refund stand. The ticket expense is not a donation to BM, it is a ticket to the specified event. Our donations are in the form of gifts offered to the community or paid as donations.
BMOrg continue to hedge their bet with these statements while they explore the legalities of announcing a cancellation without circumstances beyond their control (government mandate) to justify it. It is not legal to collect money for a non-refundable event and simply not hold said event. That is fraud. Currently the state of Nevada is only on lock own until April 16th which is likely to be extended until April 30th to line up with the current federal date for social distancing. No one has officially said you can not have a gathering at the end of August so they would have to issue refunds or honor the tickets for the next event to avoid repercussions. Charge backs, class action suits and damaged relationships would all ensue and be more of a financial and reputation hit than they may be able to weather. Many things printed on ticket terms do not hold up legally. It would be one thing if a hurricane was bearing down on the location and they closed roads causing an effective cancellation or if the event was being held starting April 11th and the state is under lock down orders. Cancelling out of an abundance of caution that there may still be a quarantine in place in five months will not justify a no refund position.
What they have done is effectively make all tickets sold to date worthless by repeating this statement. This is why it is not fair to sit on the fence. I have core setup crew that charged these tickets a month ago and became unemployed two weeks ago. Their financial situation has changed and they need that money for food and rent while they wait for unemployment and stimulus to catch up. Normally they would have an option to sell their tickets to another camp member but now no one wants to buy and roll the dice on tickets to an event that may choose to cancel while threatening no refunds. There was no transfer tool to facilitate having made that move when the casinos shut down on March 18thany way. How inconsiderate of anyone that suggests that there is no difference between being out the money to attend the event versus just being out the money. Every year I have camp members whose situation has changed that are able to then sell their tickets to another camp member.
Yes we all want the event to happen. We will all need to reconnect and celebrate our survival when this has passed. The ambiguity is the problem. Either they stick to their guns and commit to having Burning Man 2020 and forge ahead, postpone for a later date or they cancel now and issue refunds/vouchers for next year. A voucher for next year won’t help pay the bills but that would have a value that could be sold.
This global situation is not the fault of BMOrg but how they choose to handle it will either make them heroes or villains. The wrong move could cost them enough good will to bring down the entire event. I am a long time camp organizer and I paid for a total of 8 of my camps DGS tickets. I do this every year because some of my core members can not afford to pay for tickets in February. I front the money for single camp members to buy a second ticket that gets reallocated once the tickets ship. I can afford to float these tickets for a few months to enable some of my camp core that are not poor enough for low income tickets but not able to afford a ticket right after the holidays. I want my camp to be as inclusive as possible so I do what I can to help. If I am burned on 8 tickets it will definitely hurt me financially as I have big expenses toward the end of the year. My HVAC went out after Burning Man last year and while I had the funds to pay for it, I took a 12 month no interest loan so I could still float tickets for camp members. I will probably figure something out but I will not be likely to ever offer to help like that again. I will have a bitter taste and may not ever want to put in all the work required to organize my highly interactive camp again. More importantly how could I ever, in good faith, recommend that my camp members invest their hard earned money in another Burning Man ticket if they are ripped off this year by the organization selling them? How could any camp leader turn to their crew and say “I know you were ripped off last year so that event organizers salaries, high rents and charitable endeavors could be paid but I want you to go ahead and buy another ticket this year and hope for the best”. Buying a ticket in February for an event that is not held until August only works because the tickets have a high demand and value that can be cashed in if needed. We can all remember the failed Fyre Festival. Only a fool would buy a ticket for the next one.
Believe me I want Burning Man to happen this year more than ever but this wishy washy we are evaluating is bullshit. I have year round storage expenses. I have thousands invested in camp infrastructure and need to start investing more for supplies if we are doing this. I figure out how much supplies cost and after our placement is confirmed I divide it out and request our modest camp fee. I would also feel compelled to refund those fees if I cancelled for any reason because that would be the only right thing to do.
Burners have answered the call every time that we were asked to do more with less. We jumped into action when the BLM recommendations were burdensome. It is time for the needs of the many to matter and for Burning Man to show the same civic responsibility they ask of us. Burning Man should stop covering their ass, make a damn decision and do the right thing. Any of the following are acceptable.
1) Commit to hold the event as scheduled.
2) Reschedule the 2020 event for a later date.
3) Cancel the event and offer comp tickets for next year.
4) Cancel the event and refund monies except for the ticket vendor fee.
These are the only responsible options as I see it and I know that I echo the feelings of many Burners left twisting in the wind right now. I will survive but I have a camp full of people to look out and speak up for.
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I totally agree with the options listed by Wet Spot. As a camp Leader, I, too, had to front money to several of my fellow Early Arrival Team members so they could afford to purchase sets of tickets and vehicle passes in the Directed Group Sale during that narrow window of opportunity when they were made available; otherwise, a part of our hard-earned, precious allotment of DGS tickets would have gone to waste. I am a senior adult living on a fixed retirement income and Social Security, but I was happy to dip into my savings to help my cash-poor, core camp mates buy these very important ticket packages so that our camp would have a chance to achieve placement and continue its tradition of service to Black Rock City.
If the 2020 event is cancelled and these costs are NOT refunded, I will be left holding the bag–OR faced with the delicate task of hitting up my still- impoverished camp mates to pay me (!) for tickets that will then be worthless to them.
I believe it is clear that the 2020 event must be held as scheduled, unless it is cancelled by the State of Nevada. BUT, IF IT IS cancelled for any reason, ONLY A FULL REFUND (or a full-cost voucher for the 2021 event) is appropriate, since DGS and FOMO tickets were sold by BMORG with the full knowledge that the event might never be held–which, as Wet Spot points out, can be legally construed as fraud.
YES, the ticket purchase terms do say that refunds won’t be given for any reason–but the fact is, NO TICKETS HAVE BEEN RECEIVED by anyone who bought them, so the case can easily be made that the goods purchased were never delivered as promised, so the deal wasn’t completed.
WE–the DGS purchasers–are the faithful, the long-term Builders of Black Rock City–we are not the latecomers and the looky-loos, the plug-n-plays, the frat boys and the helicopter celebrities. Please consider the damage that will be done if you stiff us this time; it may signal the beginning of the end of Burning Man.
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Very well said my friend. This will be the sign that tells us weather or not how we are truly valued by the BORG. The fact that they aren’t prepared for the cancellation and they sold tickets and are apparently using the money to pay salaries speaks volumes. I think you are right,,,,this may be the beginning of the end.
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A specialize healer called robinsonbucler {{@ gmail}}. com, cured me from HERPES virus a great man who have use his root and herbs to cure all kind of deadly disease, i was infected with HERPES virus and I never thought HERPES virus could be cure with herbal medication. I saw his email on Youtube by a patient he has cured from HERPES called FLORENCE who drop the email and phone contact of the doctor that cured me, I really thank FLORENCE for sharing her testimony on how she was cured, I contact him to make me the herbal medication for my HERPES cure and send it to me in U.K via DHL and i followed the instruction on how to take the drugs, got cured within two weeks after using the medicine,,
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Here is the plan
1. Collect ticket sales money, the disclaimer says there is no refund
2. Wait till the state of NV cancels the event, BM is off the hook and keeps the money for “on going expenses”
And salaries to the board members.
3. Don’t put any more money into the event, it’s a financial loss.
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Shit!
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Regional event Burning Flipside is officially canceled. It would be wise to take a decision now and cancel the event this year instead of just speculating and wasting resources/money. Just ask your CEO and other executives to take a pay cut this year
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Is it possible to get an email with the updated dates?
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One idea. Perhaps the org could have take a leap and have faith in their community and let ticket holders decide between options based on what’s best for them and their personal financial situation, recognizing that burners come from all economic backgrounds, and some are more/less stressed than others
-full refund
-partial refund (partial donation)
-no refund but full credit for next year (donation = float)
-no refund (full donation) with guaranteed ticket (paid at full price) for next year.
People who can afford to be more generous and support the foundation of the event could chose to do so while those that really need their cash could get a full or partial refund.
What do people think of this?
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The org could also essentially pre-sell some tickets to 2021 to get necessary cash flow to help cover costs for the next 12 months in event 2020 is cancelled.
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are you proposing this just for the tickets sold to date? I was thinking the org could make a similar offer to burners who are willing to buy tickets now, not knowing if the event will take place this year. However, they would not receive a full refund but perhaps 75% (“donating” the balance to keep org afloat), and first opportunity to purchase at full price next year. I would purchase tickets on that basis.
Of course, nobody can be assured there will be an event next year!
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From my perspective, it seems that almost every opinion and question here could have been offered absent any profanity or anger.
It’s a tense world out there right now.
Are you being the person you want other people to be? Are you leading by example?
Ask questions, challenge norms, gain clarity. These are things we all need to do.
For my own part, I am finding that I have to ask myself if you am being my best self while doing it. And when I do that, I can see my expression take the form I want it to.
We all have problems. We all want clarity.
As we speak, there are thousands of near-retirement aged doctors, Nurses, and Medics getting dressed to go to work. They know full well that they are at high risk, and will probably get this virus at some point and take it home to their families.
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Great thoughts and so well said, thanks. You’ve made me think that a very burner approach is to make adversity into an opportunity. The opportunity here is to a) BMORG address their responsibility to not harm or threaten to harm any of us attending and more critically, any adjacent community, so cancellation is sadly necessary. b) act with trust, meaning manage funds received fairly (the option of return or reapply those funds, as noted above are on target. c) step back and reconsider the event in light of community and personal environment and health, there are many things to do better and a year to plan would let BMORG reorganize. d) Meantime, support ‘burn local’ events that let everyone that wants to, find their local community, place and time and keep the fire going. This is an opportunity, take it, and make it burn.
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I spoke to a lawyer about this. The “no refund” policy only applies if the event happens. If Burning Man doesn’t deliver on their half of the contract (i.e. I give you money, you put on an event) by putting on the event, they can’t actually keep the ticket money they’ve collected.
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Exactly! As I’ve commented elsewhere, Burning Man has NO legal standing to keep anyone’s money IF they don’t hold the event, especially since they went ahead and sold both DGS and FOMO tickets AFTER learning that cancellation was a very real possibility–and since they have NOT delivered ANY tickets to anybody. Everyone who used a credit card to purchase their tickets–and I assume that WAS everyone–can simply notify their credit card companies that they never received the goods that they bought, and their money should be returned, right? (Again, no goods for your money = fraud, right?) And this nonsense about the organization “needing donations” to pay for an event that is NOT even happening? Why not ask some of the dozen or so six-figure-salaried executives running the operation to chip in? Or tap into the multi-million-dollar reserve kitty you’ve got stashed away? Or mortgage Fly Ranch? OR…. (Again, WHY will you guys need SO MUCH money if the event gets cancelled, and why are you even momentarily entertaining the idea of snagging it from your most loyal ticket purchasers?)
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Anticipating a wash for 2020, I made a donation – not as much as a ticket, but the BRC expenses won’t be that high either. If everyone who tries to buy a ticket (not just those who actually succeed) makes a contribution, that could enable 100% refunds. How many try to buy? Well, BRC admins already know given the number who have profiles. If each of those made a $50.00 contribution (not subject to entertainment tax) that might reach $1.5 million on a good day.
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My wife and I are very fortunate to not have to rely on the amount of BM tix to determine whether or not we’ll have rent or be able to eat. Maybe they can come up with an option that some of us can sit tight and roll our tickets into next year? This would give those in need refunds and those of us willing and able the ability to avoid the whole ticket sale process in 2021?
Just a thought.
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I had to decide to lay off 12 employees, 2 who are Burners. The amount they will collect from unemployment is 60% of their monthly nut.
Many Americans are living on credit cards to get by.
As a employer these decisions create many sleepless nights. Part of it is should I apply for a 3.75 SBA interest loan and go deeper in debt to create employment ?
Maybe it’s the Insurance creating the delay of cancelling this year. BMorg has the same options
as all United States employers.
Apply for the new loans ie: Pay Check Protection Program (PPP ) or the Economic Injury Disaster Loan ( EIDL ) Cheers,
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It saddens me to here from so many Burners that are so concerned about money they spent for a gathering that is not suppose to be about money. How much more money will you spend if the Burn does happen ? It seems to me you are all money ahead if it is canceled. And how many years of great burns have we had ? Divide your losses into past years and move on.This COVID 19 is a world issue that has and will continue to devastate families . The Burn should be canceled so we are not labeled as Respirator wearing reckless fools ….
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People’s lives all over the world are on hold because of a perceived threat from a virus called COVID-19. So is the economy. Millions of people all over the world have lost their jobs, their security, their livelihoods, etc. because of intense government lockdowns to combat the spread of a virus we know little about. The effect of this will be devastating for millions of people for potentially years to come and will completely change the face of the world as we know it. A majority of the media has been pushing fear more than facts. I find very little published data in the mainstream news articles. Mostly articles basically scaring us to believe that if we don’t lock down immediately we are going to get sick and potentially die. So therefor in a time like this it is of the upmost importance to have actual scientific facts published about COVID-19 instead of nonstop media bombardment of what we fear it might be. Here’s what we do know. The following is a quote from the CDC website sourced below.
“The complete clinical picture with regard to COVID-19 is not fully known. Reported illnesses have ranged from very mild (including some with no reported symptoms) to severe, including illness resulting in death. While information so far suggests that most COVID-19 illness is mild, a reportexternal icon out of China suggests serious illness occurs in 16% of cases. Older people and people of all ages with severe chronic medical conditions — like heart disease, lung disease and diabetes, for example — seem to be at higher risk of developing serious COVID-19 illness. A CDC Morbidity & Mortality Weekly Report that looked at severity of disease among COVID-19 cases in the United States by age group found that 80% of deaths were among adults 65 years and older with the highest percentage of severe outcomes occurring in people 85 years and older.” (CDC 1)
A report labeled in the previous quote as “a reportexternal icon” (couldn’t fix it) is a medical journal study that claimed this rapidly spreading virus has caused 6.1% of the people in the study to go into critical condition with 1.4% dying. Report source below (NEJM 2). However, the first thing you must take note out of this is that the 1,099 people in the study were already at the hospital because they were sick enough to go to a hospital. How many people had COVID-19 that were not sick enough to be in the hospital? How long has COVID-19 been spreading around the earth until we noticed? Weeks? Months? Maybe years? We don’t know for sure. The answers to those questions could change everything and needs to be some of the main things we are trying to figure out before we destroy the lives of millions of people and ruin the economy worldwide. How many people are flooding the hospitals and clogging the system because they think they have COVID-19 and might just have the flu or another illness? The test results can take days to come back and meanwhile they keep these people in the hospital clogging the system and that causes a greater issue. The issue being when someone does come into the hospital with COVID-19, then it can spread to all the people in there who are there with something else but think its COVID-19, because of the fear the media has spread. This creates a never-ending cycle of more and more people rushing to hospitals anytime they get sick, which causes the disease that is there to spread more prevalently than it would under normal conditions. This also affects the people in the hospital who are already there for other serious medical conditions, it could cause them to get COVID-19 on top of other medical conditions and that pushes them to their limit and they die. It is possible that the fear of this disease is causing more problems than the disease itself left unnoticed.
In times like this it is of the upmost importance that we base our decisions on facts not fear. As of March 17th, In Italy 99% of the people who died from COVID-19 had other illness (BB 3). 48.5% of them had 3 or more illnesses. A majority of them were over 65 years old. How do we know for a fact that it was COVID-19 that killed them and not their other illnesses? As of writing this there’s been 720,000 cases and 33,906 deaths from COVID-19. So we know for a fact that at least 33,906 people who died had COVID-19 at the time of death along with most of them having other illness as well. Based on the Italian data being effective on a bigger scale that means about 48.5% of these people had 3 or more illness at the time of death. Was it truly COVID-19 that killed them? Do we know that as a Fact? The answer still is that we don’t know.
Here is a quote from Dr. John Lee. I strongly recommend reading his article I have listed the link below (S 5).
“In the current climate, anyone with a positive test for Covid-19 will certainly be known to clinical staff looking after them: if any of these patients dies, staff will have to record the Covid-19 designation on the death certificate — contrary to usual practice for most infections of this kind. There is a big difference between Covid-19 causing death, and Covid-19 being found in someone who died of other causes. Making Covid-19 notifiable might give the appearance of it causing increasing numbers of deaths, whether this is true or not. It might appear far more of a killer than flu, simply because of the way deaths are recorded (S 5).”
From October 1, 2019 through March 21, 2020 the CDC estimates there was between 400,000 – 730,000 hospitalizations because of the flu with 24,000 – 62,000 deaths just in the United States (CDC 4). That’s 71 days which equals to between 5,634 – 10,282 hospitalizations a day and 338 – 873 deaths a day in the united states from influenza alone.
That means that if you only looked at the hospitalizations of the regular flu it would appear to have a death rate of between 6% and 8.4% based on the people who were sick enough to go to the hospital with it. That number comes from dividing the total deaths from the flu vs the hospitalizations found in the information on the CDC website (CDC 4). So if you then compare that data to COVID-19 the study published in the New England Journal of Medicine found a 1.4% death rate in COVID-19 based on hospitalizations. Even if you just looked at the evidence from Italy with almost a 10% death rate (currently the highest in the world by far) among those hospitalized from COVID-19 then compare that to the 6% – 8.4% death rate of people who are hospitalized for the flu it still is only 1.6% higher then the worst death rate of the flu of 8.4% based on hospitalizations. We also know that ITALY has one of the oldest populations on earth with their median age being almost 10 years older than people in the US. Now the flu has a 0.1% death rate when you look at the people on the earth as a whole and don’t just base your data off of hospitalized people. Right now for COVID-19 we are basing almost all of our data off of people who are already sick enough to be in the hospital and when you do that any sickness will appear to have a higher death rate just like the flu does.
So is there enough evidence to forcibly lock down the entire world and destroy millions of lives and the economy. I do not believe so. However, based on what we do know I do understand that some restrictive and preventative measures are a good thing. However these need to be based on realistic expectations of what people with an active life and economy can handle in a healthy way. For example, asking people who are over 65 or people with other serious illness to stay home and self quarantine until we know more about the situation. Younger generations have a higher likely hood to develop a herd immunity which eventually would protect the older at risk people. Overly restrictive movement policies will delay the possibility of a strong herd immunity developing. The media pushing fear and the government ordering lockdowns will cause panic and ruin the economy which will then make the problem even worse and could perhaps cause WW3. We are still at least over a year away from developing a vaccine and it is not possible to lock down for that long so we must allow a herd immunity to develop or risk the catastrophic effects lockdown will have on society. While also taking note it is a direct violation of our civil rights and the constitution.
SOURCES
1. CDC. Center for Disease Control. https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/cases-updates/summary.html
2. NEJM. New England Journal of Medicine. https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMoa2002032
3. BB. Bloomberg. https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-03-18/99-of-those-who-died-from-virus-had-other-illness-italy-says
4. CDC. Center for Disease Control. https://www.cdc.gov/flu/about/burden/preliminary-in-season-estimates.htm
5. S. The Spectator https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/The-evidence-on-Covid-19-is-not-as-clear-as-we-think
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And your point is?
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Difficult to decipher, but there are allusions to ‘Merica!’, and ‘why should we be forced to about others?’.
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I confess it was a little tl;dr for my tiny brain, but I think what he was trying to say is that corona is so highly transmissible (and perhaps even common in the population by now) that many persons dying from many causes may end up having their deaths misattributed to corona. Or somethong like that. Which is all very interesting to me as a physician (who sadly, will probably not get to work on playa this year). Cheers, and stay safe.
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I think this guy’s point, whatever it was, is now moot, considering the now head-spinning global death toll, which spans every age group from infants to geezers, including perfectly hale and hearty people with no previous signs of any ailment whatsoever! Seems like a Herculean attempt to muddy the waters with a lot of pseudo-medical gobbledygook cherrypicked from a variety of random sources. No cigar for him….
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Roger that. I have said from the beginning that it would be wise and humane to identify high risk populations (so far these appear to include the elderly, smokers, and with hypertension and heart disease). But I fear that the consequences of the current global political/media/public health dumpster fire are going to be so severe that the blow-back will limit our ability to care for those most in need during the next pandemic (which will likely happen sometime within the next few years, especially given the human appetite for extremely weird animals that would probably be best left alone). Cheers, everyone. And see you in 2021 (or 2, maybe).
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There shall in this time be rumors of things going astray and there shall be a great confusion as to where things really are, and nobody will really know where those little things lay with the sort of raffia work base that has an attachment. At this time, a friend shall lose his friend’s hammer and the young shall not know where the things possessed by their fathers lay that their fathers put there only just the night before, about eight o’clock.
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The Democratic National Convention has been pushed back to the week of August 17 in the wake of the coronavirus pandemic, the committee tasked with planning the event announced on Thursday. They probably have good intel that virus threat will be resolved by then. Same for burning man.
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That convention will not happen. If it does the Democrats will have behaved irresponsibly. We have to be better. Digital Burning Man could be a thing this year.
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I don’t need any of this and I don’t need Burning Man! Just this ashtray, this paddle game and the remote control and the lamp and the matches and the chair. That’s all I need. And that’s all I need too! I don’t need one other thing, not one.
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NEWS FLASH
President Donald Trump today signed an executive order directing all Republicans to begin regular church attendance. “The blue states Democrat liberal socialists are a disgrace and are wrecking my economy. Enough is enough. It’s time that Republicans come together and pray to god and me again in mass gatherings,” the president said in an Oval Office signing ceremony surrounded by the nation’s evangelical religious leaders.
“I pray for Donald Trump. Finally, America has a god fearing President who believes in god”, said Pastor Rodney Howard-Browne.
In a show of American outrage and protest against liberals in blue state, the president’s order directs Republicans to gather at churches all across the nation, to shake hands, hug and stay in close proximity with each other for a minimum of 15 minutes without the use of face masks, gloves or hand sanitizer.
Fox News host Sean Hannity applauded the president’s directive and said “I will go to church as soon as possible to pray for President Trump and god along with thousands of evangelicals at megachurches all across the country.”
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jfc we have some dumbasses in this country.
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Okay, BM PROJECT
Having read most of the posts and the range of comments (many emotionally fueled) from your latest communications, what have you learned? Probably a lot I’m guessing (and hoping). Look, those of you who have drafted these recent communications to the Burner community are magnificently human – well-intentioned yet prone to both greatness and error. The greatness? You’ve committed incredible energy to continue to provide an amazing experience for the majority who have hit one of the world’s great lotteries by having the opportunity to attend BM and participate in all that it represents. Thank you.
Now to the error and one thing I hope you have learned. You acknowledge at the outset ‘there’s a tremendous amount of uncertainty right now.’ Any run of the mill neuroscientist will tell you that ‘uncertainty’ (aka a human’s inability to predict the future) triggers a fear/threat response. Hello global pandemic! Much of your communication(s) only fuels the uncertainty. Case in point: Why address now the issue of refunds/no refunds before you have officially canceled the event? (Yes, of course, people are worried about ALOT, and certainly money is paramount for those in critical need, and yes, I’m sure you have been bombarded with questions about what will happen if the event is canceled. And to date, it hasn’t been…)
Cutting to the chase: as you go forward be uber-mindful of the clarity of your communications. Run them through the ‘screen’: is what we’re communicating going to create greater certainty or greater uncertainty for our community? What the community needs now is certainty, in whatever measures it is available in the face of the current reality of uncertainty. Shared in service to your efforts now and for the future…
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Multivirus 2020 … at the bottom of my priority right now .
Very saddened by the events in the default world. It is still a world we need to protect and care for all the people that are affected and the courageous front line workers. I’m also grateful of all the work that BMorg is doing to help the participants and trying to find solutions.
Good luck with whatever will happen and I will see you all in 2021. ( hopefully )
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This is the most brilliant solution to the scalper problem I’ve seen yet. Personally I’m buying tickets just for the kittens.
IT’S NOT ABOUT YOU !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
COVID-19 will still be a problem in August there is no way it will be cured or eradicated in the next 4 months. If BMORG doesn’t do the right thing then BLM or the State of Nevada needs to shut the event down. There is only 1 responsible decision to make & they need to do this before they sell another ticket.
The money is there so If they don’t refund tickets that will be the end of BMORG and the beginning of BM Corp. – Just a big (for profit) PnP RV park in the desert.
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So let me get this straight, burning man thinks it’s giving corporations the shaft by not letting them participate. Instead they placed all the risk on the ticket buyer, paying the next guy with the first man’s ticket money. How is that different from a Ponzi scheme? How is that any different than what these evil corporations do every day? You as the nonprofit should at least have some type of insurance for these type of situations. It is insane to me that you guys throw this year‘s event off of the same year‘s ticket sales. So in the end if something goes wrong we as ticket buyers are the ones who get screwed. I understand the organization and it’s people are not becoming rich off the event and many are volunteers but you preach radical self inclusion and that money is not necessary here but as soon as things go wrong you are quick to reminds us how important money really is.
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Sadly insurance does not cover this. The Theater I’m involved in has held a fundraiser, as have most other arts organizations in my city. Believe me we tried, our attorneys tried. So much for those premiums.
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Insurance probably would cover this IF the BLM were to cancel the event. If Burning Man decides to cancel the event on their own, it would not be covered by insurance. This is probably why they are waiting to cancel.
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BLM will not give up their cash cow willingly.
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So you decided that I wanted to make a 1200 dollar contribution to help pay your salary. That’s shameful and flies in the face of whatBM is about. You’ve loaded the BORG staff full of pork and now it’s a Ponzi scheme. I’ve slowly watched the rise of ticket sales and have always willingly paid but now you are willing to just use our cash to pay your salaries.
How could you ? Did you ever think that some time there would be a situation that could keep the next event from happening? Weren’t you prepared?
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No intention of going this year. If i was in tcket limbo, i would opt for a ticket in 2021, so i didnt have to mess with trying to get a tick at that time. Bmorg does need to pay cut,reduce cost eyc. Etc.
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So I’ve been thinking this over. The best scenario for my camp would be to rollover to 2021 as many as possible of my camps DGS allocated tickets. This would help me keep my core crew together and not scatter them to the winds with a direct refund. But if you’re considering a refund, may I suggest it is better perhaps to offer both the option of a refund or a rollover to 2021? And since you originally tasked us camp leads to be in charge of gathering our DGS ticket recipients you should also task us with contacting our DGS campers on their needs, and whether they would want a rollover or a refund. Meaning, I would prefer that you do not contact our DGS core directly. That diminishes our ability to build and maintain a core. As camp leads we can determine which of those in our camp want out (a refund), and even try to find new crew members that can buy these DGS tickets directly from them. We would of course need BMORG to devise a way to transfer the name and mailing address on these transferred DGS tickets. And as camp leads We will do our damn best to keep everybody involved and invested for 2021. The worst possible thing BM could do would be to just keep our DGS ticket money. I’d never again ever be able to muster up a new core crew after having lost all my credibility. I can imagine you’ll lose a lot of long term theme camps if you pull something like that.
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And in regards to the general ticket sale. I’ve been thinking the way to go about it is to advertise ahead of time that the event may happen on 2020 but if not these tickets are automatically valid for the 2021 burn. And why not add a one time $50 fee to ticket prices as a covid 19 emergency fund? Just to raise some extra cash to get your staff through to 2021 if necessary.
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Cancel. The Navajo Nation has been infected because the DOI refused to close the Grand Canyon until late last week. What about the Paiute tribe reservation everyone passes through to get to burning man? If the DOI didn’t act until it was too late, the BLM won’t care about canceling BM. BMorg needs to do the right thing. Cancel. Tribes worry about being “wiped out”:
https://www.washingtonpost.com/climate-environment/2020/04/04/native-american-coronavirus/
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Unfortunately there is already a COVID-19 positive diagnosis in the Pyramid Lake Tribal area. The virus is already present, even in remote areas. It is entirely up to each individual as to how much they expose themselves. Stay home and wash your hands. That is the only protection anyone has.
http://www.fernleyreporter.com/pyramid-lake-resident-tests-positive-for-coronavirus/
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It’s not up to the Pyramid Lake Tribe if 70,000 or more people (staff, transport truckers) pass through their town. Really dude. Read the comments from tribal residents and someone from Gerlach. They say to stay away.
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After replying I’m not sure if you are agreeing that burners should stay home or not. Thank you for the article, devastating to hear the PLPT has cases. Again this demonstrates burners (and all the staff, etc) should stay home this year. The PLPT can’t control whether people pass through their town or not. Really feeling for the Native American tribes, and other small town residents.
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This is not good. CoronaBurn 2020 is not gonna happen. It’s not. But, even though BMORG knows that to continue on and sell more tickets (behind a smokescreen of “Oh, It might still happen”) is the epitome of typical corporate deception and greed, but to continue, they have to put out all the circle talk to try to act like the Burn might still happen. It’s not.
All this posturing is to generate a plausable “out”, after they tell us that the tickets we bought are worthless. Now, it’s going to be easier to tell people “No refund, BLM was the bad guy and canceled us”. People who were hoping against hope, that the “maybe” that BMORG is still promoting (when they know the BLM is gonna close all public lands to gatherings of any kind) is just top get people to buy more tickets to keep their car payments made, and their credit cards current.
BLM hates the Burn. They hate pulling 50 guys away from their families every year, especially while this virus thing is happening. They are drooling to close the desert to CoronaBurn 2020.
Wait and see. Idiots will buy tickets, BMORG makes bank, BLM will step in and happily be “The Bad Guy”, and we all get to suck eggs. Hide and watch. You heard it here first. “CoronaBurn” isn’t gonna happen, but it’s still gonna get paid for.
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No one should wait for the BLM to cancel events and permits. The BLM is situated within the DOI. The DOI stubbornly kept National Parks open despite concerned park staff. Now the Navajo Nation has nearly 300 cases because of transmission from Grand Canyon visitors. Cancel, but don’t wait for the BLM – because that might not happen.
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I mean BMorg should cancel, and not wait for the BLM to cancel events/permits because the BLM prob won’t.
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No refund is actually not an option if the event doesn’t happen. It would be fraud.
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Read the back of any BM ticket.
No refunds even if the event is canceled.
No fraud @ all .
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And a fully digital, virtual burn would be a great way to practice even more creativity, think outside the box, build new skills and expand mindsets, and be inclusive. Already the burn is broadcast every year and the web broadcast team does a great job of includinv and engaging with people. That could be expanded considerably in new ways. Have digital camps and web-based engagements and video art – we can take this pretty far. Be creative in ways to make 2020 100% digital, remote, inclusive. Cancel the 2020 physical event. But take it further.
These developments can not only make 2020 safe, but can be carried on to the future.
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Please cancel to protect Native Americans at the Paiute reservation near the playa. The Navajo Nation has been impacted significantly because the Grand Canyon was kept open until late last week, allowing Covid19 exposure. Tribes are speaking out. Thank you.
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knowing what apparently should happen, in light of what apparently is happening…has two apparent intuitive options – giving ticket holders their choice of refund or entrance to MegaBurn 2021 . – anything else is at it’s base… a supreme dose of deception – and I’m talkin’ Cutlass, not taco size dose
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“The organization is also stowing away some savings in its rainy day fund, which now amounts to more than $7 million, about $4 million more than the organization had last year.”–
Burning Man is making millions. Where’s all the money going? We broke down their budget
Jennifer Kane, Reno Gazette Journal Published 6:00 a.m. PT Dec. 21, 2018 | Updated 11:29 a.m. PT Dec. 21, 2018
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The event costs over $20mil to put on. They have a rainy day fund of $7mil.
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Here’s an idea. The theme this year is “The Multiverse”. How about you just say all the tickets are valid, they’re just valid for the event in a universe where it is actually happening.
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Hey BORG, don’t bit the hand that feeds you. The people who bought the DGS tickets are your core members that make BM possible. After reading through these comments, it’s obvious that there is much love and dedication from this core group. Now is not the time to test their love and dedication. There’s been lots of suggestions on rolling over the tickets to next year, partial refunds, contributions to the culture… It’s time to buck up, tighten your belts like everyone else, and make some decisions. In spite of the orange assholes suggestion of things getting back to normal, BM is most likely not going to happen this year. Even if the feds gave you the green light, it would be totally irresponsible of you to have us all gather in BRC as we have for almost 30 years Take the high road, and let us know what is really going on.
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As a tribal member living in Nevada on a reservation we strongly agree that you cancel this event. The earth needs to heal in peace and harmony. To even think that it’s a possibility to have this event is ludicrous. I speak for many tribes in this area. Please stop and stay home.
We are in great danger!!
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The town of Gerlach agrees with you…
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The town of gerlach wouldn’t exist without burning man. Unless you’re an elected official shut your pie hole
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Canceled Sammy, sit at home in late August and shove molly down your pie hole and pretend you are on Playa…
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Just found out one of my campmates has coronavirus. And he’s in his late 60’s so a prime target. While we are hoping for the best we must prepare for the worst. He is DGS ticket recipient and shares his slot with another campmate. And they live in different states. Should something happen to him ,god forbid, the org needs to provide us camp leads with a way to transfer the mailing address on those DGS tickets. It’s entirely possible that they could be sent out to a non responsive address.
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*That’s* what you’re worried about? If he dies who gets his ticket? Damn. (If this is how people think, the event won’t be canceled.)
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Apparently you just wanted to make a quick judgement on the matter. And now that you’ve made your judgement the point is still valid. There is no pathway for any person who shared on Any DGS ticket to recover their ticket if the person of record is incapacitated.
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Please care more about people, less about tickets. Everyone. Seriously cringed.
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Shocking comment, this is not far off something Trump would say. Gutless.
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FYI, CEO of REI (where I typically go to pick up my gas canisters pre-playa) just announced that he is forgoing his salary for 6 mo. And cutting those of senior leadership by 20%. Sounds reasonable. I predict the org will end up making a similar gesture of goodwill to the burner community. (Right after they bit the bullet and cancel this thing.) I just hopes it’s soon.
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Where are you hippies gonna put the Ventilators and Body Bags? No BM in August.
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Even if things are going better in the US and other developed nations come August it will not be going good for so many others around the world like Ecuador ETC . Burningman is about caring for your fellow humans not money . How could you not take a deep breath and cancel this year what part of Pandemic don’t you get ! It’s what must be done . In the fall we’ll all regroup and Burn 2021 will go on …themed Humanity ..Respect
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Wimbledon is cancelled, but the U.S. Open is not
(yet), follow the yellow brick road, everyone is waiting for the pivot (cure,vaccine), if world opens up by June, then hippies rejoice..BM will be on..
I would bet dollars to doughnuts we will be up and running , why , because it feels better to be an optimist…and well let’s not forget it is an election year…so..
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In the event it is canceled, it would be awesome if BM would give options.
Offer this year’s dgs ticket sales to be redeemed for next year’s event. (I’d be good w/ that)
Offer a full refund with the option of donating 1/2 the ticket price, or the full ticket price to the org.
Just saying “refund policy” to me, seems like a corporate type of thing and I would have a hard time supporting the event in the future. But it is my belief that the organization will come up with a solution that works for us all. I have faith on all levels that a cure will be made, that the event will go on and that a complete American revolution will happen(not blood shed). Anyways, that’s my prediction of the future, just hard saying what year 2020, 2021,2022 (actually all three).
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For all it’s worth I live in Nevada and just got word from an inside reputable source fromThe Bureau of Indian Affairs (BIA) and State Troopers that the event will be cancelled. Although it was a tough decision because there is a lot of money that gets distributed to the state and federal agencies to keep burning man going, it was all based on Safety.
Burning Man is all about the dollar. What happens inside of Burning Man is not what happens outside. It’s unfortunately a very corrupt system. A ton of money exchanges going on to keep this event going. It was never like this before back in the day. Burning man at one point had its purpose. It still does to some extent for the people inside the bubble. But once outside this bubble lays a nasty truth that these burners have no clue about.
Wish you guys all the luck because it is a pretty cool event and experience. But I believe it’s lost it’s true identity and cause due to corruption and the dollar.
Can’t live in a bubble forever. Your gonna have to face the real world eventually. Burners should take what they experienced in Burning Man and apply it to the real world. Make a change to your true environment and not in a bubble where you have to pay to only leave back to the world.
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Bureau of Indian Affairs (BIA) and Nevada State Troopers have zero authority to cancel anything. It’s on fed land.
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He didn’t state that they BIA or Troopers we’re canceling the event. It was and inside source from both establishments. I’ve actually heard the same thing as well here in San Francisco. Rumor or not the news made its way up north to where I live. At 1st I was in disagreement for canceling the event. But now with everything going on and the neighboring tribes having concerns, I believe it’s in our best interest to cancel this event. We can’t be that stubborn and blind to not see what a huge negative impact this would cause. The tribes are saying to cancel. That should be the voice we listen too. To me the tribal leaders speak in volumes. Wake up people. There’s always next year. Your life isn’t going to end if you miss 1 event. Get a life!!!
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I totally agree. Why isn’t anyone here commenting on the local tribal concerns? They obviously voiced their concerns and everyone is ignoring them. Wow! Really hypocritical of you all.
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>>Burners should take what they experienced in Burning Man and apply it to the real world.
I’ve been thinking of ways to get people to work for free for me so I can save labor costs. The thing I learned at BM is how to motivate people to pay me so they can work for me.
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“ Make a change to your true environment and not in a bubble where you have to pay to only leave back to the world“
We could learn a lot from that comment. It’s time to make a change.
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Hi folks! Just been reading through all these comments, quite entertaining! Going forwards, I’ve developed a category system for anyone’s convenience, if desired. Saves on typing:
A – can’t we all just luuuuurve one another?
B – geez, chill out and wait. They’ll tell us when they tell us.
C – pandemics are serious and they should cancel it right now!
D – legal things mean refunds or deferrals would happen.
E – they only want teh $$$$ ! Bad!
FLAME ON!
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F – Native American Rights
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Please keep speaking up. It’s damning how people dont even notice tribal concerns that have repeatedly been stated.
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That consideration was what I was referring to when I wrote C, but definitely it needs it’s own category, true!
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I dont think its “entertaining” that rural residents, Native Americans included, are concerned about protecting their communities from hordes of infected tourists.
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The Pyramid Lake Tribal Council as the governing body of the Pyramid Lake Paiute Tribe is charged with the responsibility of safeguarding the peace and safety of the residents of the Reservation.
Be advised the Tribal Council, in order to protect the general welfare of the residents and the resources of the reservation, approved the Bureau of Indian Affairs request to carry out a joint interdiction operation to shutdown the Burning Man Event.
One of the new initiatives to fight the Pandemic , was the creation of the Joint Task Force, through which the Department of the Interior is committed to giving all resources required to stop people from entering the reservations if the decision made to continue the event.
As such, the Criminal Interdiction Operation has been focused on highways known for being routes into and through Indian Country. This collaboration focused efforts on conducting high visibility enforcement operations with specialized interdiction teams. The following is an overview of the BIA enforcement plan for the Burning Man even closure:
The Bureau of Indian Affairs, Division of Enforcement (DOE) has formed a partnership with the Bureau of Land Management (BLM), the Nevada Division of Investigations and the Pyramid Lake Paiute Tribal Police Department (PLPD).
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I believe for a lot of us a refund would be helpful and necessary given our unexpected additional financial constraints. It would be nice if BM could provide the choice to allow the tickets people purchased to either apply to 2021 or to be refunded, so those people who can afford it right now, and want to ensure they have tickets next year, and support BM projects, can make that choice. Possibly this balance of refunds and those deferring to 2021 could keep the BM projects afloat and help the burners who could use the money back during these difficult times.
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A wishful thinking multiversal ticket sales/refund strategy (apologies if similar has been previously proposed, and mean no disrespect to those rightfully concerned about health and safety):
We ALL want it. We ALL know it’s not free, whether it happens or not. And we ALL know there’s no community without U-N-I-T-Y. Assuming a decision to cancel hasn’t already been made within the dust storm, amend T&Cs to allow for X% of payment from ALL purchases (including vehicle passes) to be retained by The Org in the event of a 2020 cancellation. Proceed with the sale(s) of all remaining tickets along a modified schedule. Should the multiverse allow for it, BRC will rise once more and we’ll meet again on playa in Aug/Sept. However, should 2020 be a no-go for any number of logical reasons, then refunds are issued less the X%, with the resulting proceeds becoming a shared contribution by ALL who Burn to support (?) the operational ‘need$‘ of The Org. And WE ALL LIVE…happily ever after to Burn again (and again) in the years to come.
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CANCELED!
SHIT!
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With the tickets that have been sold & people that want out of the purchase, can you guys open up STEP. I will be happy to purchase someone’s ticket.
Or, Lets go with ticket sales for 2021 and get it over with. This gives BMORG moeny to work with, and releaves streas next summer, allowing yall to comcentrate on other items..
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“Our terms and conditions state that tickets are non-refundable “for any reason,” but we recognize how unusual this situation is, and are sensitive to the financial insecurity many in our community are facing.”
Except we don’t have tickets. We have a receipt for a ticket. Why can’t your ticket company simply refund all of us from the DGS? WE are the people who frankly should be refunded first as most of us have 10 years or more skin in the game. And to answer your comment YES – we need our money NOW. When is this happening and why do we have to login to our profile page? Ticketmaster and other ticketing services are issuing refunds without the need to request them on a profile page. Are we no better than TM?
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6301013643
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