Burning Man’s Plans

Larry Harvey at Fly Hot Springs
Larry Harvey at Fly Hot Springs

It was a gorgeous evening to be leaving the playa.

There hadn’t been much wind all day, and the dust was barely noticeable. The moon was a day away from full, and there was real excitement and anticipation in the evening air.

A smallish group of very well-turned-out people gathered near the Bone Tree in First Camp on Thursday  to be taken by bus to Fly Hot Springs, an oasis maybe 10 miles down the road from the hot and dusty Black Rock City. We drove away from the camps and the lights and the art, back out the way we had come in, and traveled a little further out Route 447, beyond the boundaries of present day Burning Man.

The bus we were on was taking us where Burning Man would like to go.

fly-hot-springs-4There’s a plot of land not far from the Black Rock Desert that the organization wants to buy. It’s owned by a family that would be willing to sell. The family has always been pretty sympathetic to the Burners, and now the economy has helped bring all parties closer to a deal.

So off we went to get a look at the land, leaving the present to get a glimpse of the future. All six founding directors of Burning Man were  part of the expedition — Larry and Marian and Crimson Rose and Harley and Will Rogers and Michael Michael — and also the people who keep the engine running so that the event takes place smoothly every year, the tech people and the legal people and the legislative people (it takes a lot to assure nervous politicians that yes, there is actually more going on at Burning Man than a bunch of naked people dancing around fires, although of course that DOES happen, but so does a whole lot more).

All of them, but especially Jackrabbit, had tugged on coatsleeves and cashed in chips to bring together some people who might be able to help make Burning Man’s dream come true. To be blunt: Burning Man was putting the arm on them, letting them know that they needed their help in getting this thing done.  So they were treating them to dinner at the place  where they’d like to go.


What if there were a place that people could come together, people who believed in the values and principles of Burning Man, and who wanted to find ways of applying those principles in the default world … of bringing them home from the playa.

What if  there were a place where the energy and creativity and approach to living that flowers in Black Rock City for a week every year could be sustained and nurtured?

What if there were a conference center where thinkers and do-ers could get together to plot and scheme and think?

Burning Man, as an organization, thinks that place is Fly Hot Springs.

So they took some people out there to show them around, and it was impressive.

fly-hot-springs-3We got off the bus and there were drinks and fortune cookies held on trays by lovely people from Nome Camp, the support/service group that used to make sure that the Red Nose District kept it together every year. The fortune cookies were fun, and of course we added the words “in bed” to all of them.

But this was serious business.  It’s completely incongruous, of course, to think of Burning Man being serious about anything. It’s about radical self expression, right? It’s about exploring your energy and identity and your generosity, right? And it’s about fun. But it takes a degree of seriousness to make your dreams come true, so here we were.

After we got our drinks and our fortune cookies, we walked out through the grasses and reeds (yes, green things in the desert!) to one of the geysers on the property. ONE of the geysers. There are a bunch of them, in fact.

So we took some pictures and Quinn hoisted us up in the air on a scissor lift so we could get a better look around. The moon was rising, the air was calm, and the views were spectacular. And the hot springs were calling.

fly-hot-springs-8So we went out and slipped into the water. The glorious, smooth, mineral-rich, silky warm water that bubbles up through the ground out here.

There is actually a fair amount of water under the desert here, and not that many years ago, 60 maybe, ranchers stuck pipes down through the crust of the earth, trying to get the water to come up where they wanted it. Well, it came up all right, it came bursting through in heated torrents. And the water built up channels to the surface that now look like mini volcanos, like some weird Las Vegas interpretation of Yellowstone Park, only this is all real, all natural.

Then we put our clothes back on and went to the tents for  appetizers and more drinks and social chit chat, which was not as nerve-wracking as it normally is because this is Burning Man after all, and you find yourself with like-minded souls, even if you don’t know very many people in the room. The people are nice. The people are progressive. The people are interesting.

fly-hot-springs-10And then there was dinner, and we got to the point: Burning Man is thinking about the future, and this could be it. So what could we do here, and how could we do it? Pens and papers were handed out, and note-takers were appointed, and brainstorming happened. And there were inspirational words from the founding Burners, hopes and dreams and entreaties and jokes and stories.

And, as always, there was inspiration from Larry Harvey.

“Going to extremes,” he said, “means doing radical things. … Your point of view has to be wide enough to accommodate large objects.”

And in this case, the large object is a place where the creative thinking and community building can be tended year round. “We want to create a place where people come together as they do at Burning Man. … We want to have the immediate experience foster meditative thought.

“A place where we can all witness each other’s inner life.”

“If Burning Man has taught is nothing, it’s that we can be the agents of change.”

Everything seems integrated this year. The organization is looking for a new home in San Francisco, and a new home in Nevada, and the theme for next year’s event reflects those real-world goals: “Metropolis, the Life of Cities.”

fly-hot-springs-12And so it went through dinner, and then dessert, and then back on the buses and into the cars and in some cases into the back of the pickups for the ride back to the playa.

We pulled back onto desolate Route 447 under the now-bright moon, and there wasn’t a thing in sight but the orange glow in the distance where the geyser had been bathed in light. Then, maybe 10 minutes later, we were pulling back out into Black Rock City,  with all the music throbbing and lights flashing and fires whooshing into the night.

So how does any of this affect me, you might be asking. Fine, you had your fancy party and your big thinking. What do I care? … Well, I’d say it increases the chances that all this will keep happening. It’s a fragile thing that’s been created here and there’s no guarantee it will keep happening.  And if this kind of thing helps, I say good.







About the author: John Curley

John Curley (that's me) has been Burning since the relatively late date of 2004, and in 2008 I spent the better part of a month on the playa, documenting the building and burning of Black Rock City in words and pictures. I loved it, and I've been doing it ever since. I was a newspaper person in a previous life, and I spent many years at the San Francisco Chronicle. At the time I left, in 2007, I was the deputy managing editor in charge of Page One and the news sections of the paper. Since then, I've turned a passion for photography into a second career. I shoot for editorial, commercial and private clients. I've also taught a little bit, including two years at UC Berkeley's Graduate School of Journalism and a year at San Francisco State University. I live on the San Mateo coast, just south of San Francisco in California.

47 Comments on “Burning Man’s Plans

  • That was a very nice post. The pictures were the best. Good photography and encoding.

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  • Great Scott says:

    Love the concept – and the possibilities. Wow.

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  • I couldn’t think of a better new owner for Fly Geyser than Burning Man, but if you do buy it, can we please keep having the event on the open playa?

    Because there’s no place on Earth like the open playa.

    See you in 2010.

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  • JoJo says:

    How would you regulate who goes into the hot springs and when? It would be hard to keep from trashing these beautiful pools of water. And I don’t see how they could be just a center piece for the event. But, to have our/your own land would be magical! Love all

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  • Tim says:

    Sorry, John, I think this is a bad, bad idea and, frankly, a disaster waiting to happen. 35-45,000 people will absolutely destroy Fly.

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  • I went to Burning Man in 1997 and enjoyed the Fly Hot Springs with thousands. I returned again the Following January 1998 and soaked in the springs with a loved one in isolation with snow dusting the surrounding mountains. Fly represents everything Burning Man is and isn’t…It is Beautiful and it isn’t Sustainable. Burning Man must Rise to the Challenge or Perish as we all must ultimately…

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  • Bertie says:

    Great pictures.
    But John…. moving BM to Fly Hot Springs would destroy that fragile land. I agree with Tim above, it would be a disaster, not only to the land, but also to the legacy/ reputation of BM. Seems it would demand too great a sacrifice from the land.

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  • Toe says:

    I can begin to see the evolution of Burning Man to Fly Hot Springs but we all have to remember that this would be a metamorphosis – which is not a simple thing.

    If migration takes place and we do decide to nest or at least build some cocoons at Fly Hot Springs, then we will have to leave some things (maybe even some we liked) behind and we may possibly gain some things we never expected. Change is not easy, but perhaps with the right consciousness and attention to the community and the land Burning Man could morph into something more beneficial to our planet and our society…

    Perhaps Fly Hot Springs could not support 12 large scale techno discos & I’ll bet without some big headlining DJ fewer people would come, or maybe different people… Perhaps the community changes a bit and we have more people sitting around campfires talking about community playing an acoustic guitar an banging on a drum – and less people grinding to thump thump and trading lollipops and plastic bobbles over deafening music… What would happen to Burning Man if we see more musical instruments and less turntables…

    It wouldn’t be the same that is for sure… But this year wasn’t like last year! And next year will be different still. I believe that the community is up to a challenge like this and perhaps we might even learn something together in the process!

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  • jonathan says:

    @ tim & bertie

    From reading the post it sounds like the plan is to make Fly a place for smaller events year round, not to move the main event to the hot springs. Given Burning Man’s excellent reputation for leaving no trace I would trust the organization to take good care of the springs.

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  • papa mo says:

    I’m guessing that no one has read between the lines here. The BM organization more than likely wants the Fly Hot Springs to use as an alternate area for the upper management types during the festival, an escape zone from the playa madness,as well as an area that will be deveolped for use as a corporate training center for the more important people of the organization.I doubt that any of them are considering that it would be open to the Burner community at large during or after the event.BM is big bucks,and big bucks needs special places for those behind the scenes to congregate, relax, and figure out how best to deepen the spell of their campground party i mean city, i mean Metropolis onto more paying customers of the one of the best parties in the world. Go regionals!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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  • tom says:

    will there be investment opportunities in the future

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  • Hotsprings Tim says:

    Where in the above blog does it say anything at all about holding the Burning Man event at Fly Hot Springs? It doesn’t. Obviously there is no way whatsoever that Black Rock City could be built there. There is mention of a conference center, which could be a good use of this fragile and beautiful place. Having been there several times, I can testify to the strange beauty and magic of this place. It would be great to get this hidden gem unlocked and once again available to limited numbers of respectful folks. If the LLC can pull off the deal let me be the first to volunteer to come up and work on it.

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  • Brooks says:

    Well Burning Man already owns land out that way on the Burning Man Ranch, which I believe is to the south of Fly. It’s where they build the man and everything.

    Also, fly is off of 34, 447 peels off to the west out of Gerlach.

    And I don’t know all that the Fly Ranch owns, but to the east of the ranch is another playa, smaller, but large enough to fit the Black Rock City footprint.

    You would miss the great backgrounds of the Calicos, Razorback (Trego) and the Black Rock in the distance, but there would probably be a lot less dust. I think the playa near fly is much firmer then the Black Rock.

    It’s the orange speck in the middle of this map: http://maps.google.com/maps/mm?ie=UTF8&hl=en&ll=40.857545,-119.330921&spn=0.015191,0.031843&t=h&z=15

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  • greetings to all burners, lovers of life and the celebrators of happiness.
    Just dipping our bodies will surely alter the hot springs waters and landscape-rapidly. Yes we will leave a trace…
    So how to control the wonderful possibilities here.?
    Who gets to go? Who gets to choose who gets to go? When? How many per visit?
    Who will be the driver(s) back and forth…the designated driver that is….
    There could be huge problems with just this aspect alone.
    BRC is only a week a year I’d be bummed to see people/vehicles coming and going out of the city all day/night long.
    Sky Springs looks beyond awesome in these pictures. If the opportunity to purchase is at hand…GO FOR IT. a new beginning awaits…carefully.
    onward and upward….
    love timmy.

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  • Bertie says:

    In response to Hotsprings Tim: “There is mention of a conference center, which could be a good use of this fragile and beautiful place.”

    Ah…. a conference center is a good use of fragile land???? I think we may have two dramatically opposed perspectives on what fragile implies and also what constitutes a “good use” of land.

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  • Let us says:

    Someone above said that the people of Burnin Man will make the right decisions. I agree. If areas of the land are taking too much punishment, take measures to correct the problem. Land is pretty resilient on its own and with our help it will thrive. The biggest picture here is all of the positive actions that will result from this evolution. Circles of do-gooders are always talking about how inspired they are to come down the mountain and wreak havoc on injustice or hunger or ignorance. With a more organised and accessible system, perhaps the concepts can recieve the attention it takes to proceed/succeed in bringing plans to fruition. It sounds as though there are a few options to choose from as far as relocation destinations. The thing is to harness the energy of BM and make the world a better place.

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  • Cheddar says:

    The BM org wants/needs to evolve. Its LLC structure doesn’t make it easy for new generations of leadership to come in. Its SF headquarters was demolished to make a hospital. Its 5-year contract with BLM is coming to an end. It has inspired a generation of participants to redefine their creative impulses — and nurtured some regional events — but a lot more creativity awaits unleashing in the default world. When forced to change, evolve! Change for the better!

    That’s why the Org invited 70 or 80 community people to start the brainstorming process. They’ve been talking and dreaming and planning and brainstorming inside the org — now it’s time to get the community involved. You can’t talk to 40,000 people at once, so they started with ~80. I was one. As you can see from this blog post, they want all of us to know what’s up. And they want to borrow our brains and our hearts and our experience to make this metamorphosis as positive for the world, and for what Burning Man stands for, as possible.

    The Fly Geyser hot spring is the centerpiece of a much larger piece of land, which includes a few corners of playa land. The Burning Man event was held on such a corner, in one year in the ’90s. It might be possible to buy this land. It might be possible to trade pieces of non-playa land to the BLM in return for more playa land. (Somebody in this community has done that before.) It might be possible to build attractive places on the land, that would attract artists and thinkers and doers, for short or long stays. But this org doesn’t know how to build and run a conference center, ranch, or any other operation on rural land, without losing money and having to close it. (Somebody in this community does, tho.)

    It might be possible to move the entire BM Org out onto that land — though after thinking about that, the staff wants to keep/make a permanent home in a large urban area (thus the Metropolis theme for next year). They want to be close enough to the hugely varied cultural life of the city that it doesn’t take a 6-hour drive to have dinner or a chat with many members of the community that sustains Burning Man. Know any suitable San Francisco buildings for sale or lease? BM is looking for its next urban home, too.

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  • Dr. Nome says:

    I am an old burner, and the thrill of yet another burn has dissipated. But when Harley and Marian called and asked our crew to bring The Nome to Fly Hot Springs and host The Gathering, I got those goose-bump feelings I have missed since several burns ago. We said yes, and hit the ground running. Twenty-five of us erected a huge structure, wired it, decorated it and partied 100 influential guests of the Borg with a multi-course fine-dining experience. We plied them with every social lubricant possible. The dining room became a buzzing beehive of conversations about possibilities of how to realize our dreams of Fly Ranch but also a permanent Burning Man site no longer under the thumb of the BLM and law enforcement. Commitments were made that we can now bring forth to reality.

    Reading this blog, I note numerous legitimate concerns about the fragility of Fly Ranch. But Fly Ranch is not the whole story.

    Two days later, I watched the man burn from Soldier Field with a friend named Chuck. Then four of us found our way into Hualapai Flat—a roundish playa embraced by a circle of small hills that is perfectly the size of Burning Man. A low blanket of clouds obscured the full moon until the heat from the playa burned a enormous circle directly overhead. As the moon brilliantly lit the white playa, we saw the future Burning Man.

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  • Rob Rayle says:

    1997 is still my favorite year ever … largely because I was able to do an hour
    soak at Fly every day. This hugely reduces the toll the playa normally takes. If BMorg can get Fly & the Hulapai playa also, it would be just amazing. Even if there can only be limited bus trips to Fly during Burning Man (as there were in 1996 and before) that too would be welcome. I trust that if BMorg owned the place they’d have a vested interest in using it as sustainably as possible.

    Boy do I miss Fly … the photos from the pre-1998 years really show what a time was had there back in the day …

    I’m keeping my fingers crossed.

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  • Trevor Stone says:

    The Black Rock Desert is a great canvas for the absurdist experiment of building a giant city, burning part of it, and then taking all the rest home. But while it’s nice to soak in a spring after a day of meetings, I don’t see a motivating reason to build a Burning Man-themed conference center in a desolate part of Nevada. Aren’t there all kinds of places in California and elsewhere one can rent for a conference?

    But I won’t pass judgment until we get some more information. What sorts of events would be held there? What’s the advantage of having them 18 miles from Gerlach? How does that location further the goals of Burning Man better than locations? If the purchase of this spring doesn’t work out, would Burning Man start a conference center somewhere else?

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  • betabox says:

    is that jill derby in the fourth picture from the top?

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  • Evil Ives says:

    I agree that this is a location for insparation and maybe you could look at how the Crazy Horse Orginization in SD works. People volunteer to live there for four months and learn about the project giving tours and the like.

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  • allaboutthemeow says:

    Marian from Burning Man here. I helped produce the event that Curly mentions here. The hot springs would be part of a nature preserve and made available to the public with controls in keeping with similar types of natural wonders. What that looks like needs to be worked out. There are nearly 4,000 acres total. Some of the other space might be nice to develop into artist in residence programs, which would include meeting space, housing, etc. Retreat or conference center could be possible if we can determine a financial model. It’s all up in the air, and we’re starting to ask others what their experiences are in developing these sorts of things.

    The Ranch (aka: Black Rock Station) is contiguous and to the north, and is 200 acres that we currently own.

    We prefer to collaborate, so the dinner was opening the doors of collaboration to new ideas.

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  • Ranger Tigereye says:

    I wonder who will end up paying for this new land…


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  • aila says:

    ahhh what yuppies really. its depressing that the spirit of hippiedom has somehow gotten twisted into something where “lovely people” are serving others wine n appitizers… can’t people have a damn potlucK ? its pac heights in the desert… n i tell u… alot of drugs and a hot springs or any body of water is a bad idea… remember how Brian Jones died? oh yes… think…

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  • jason dave says:

    keep the mass of burners on the playa. if the higher-ups need a “retreat” then so be it. the minions and i can be found on the playa…

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  • Deep Eddy says:

    I wasn’t out at this little gathering, but a lot of these posts are missing the point I expect. Instead of focusing on what it shouldn’t be, why not focus on what COULD be and what is appropriate.

    A beautiful piece of land exists alongside the land we call home one week a year, but this land has water and a unique beauty of its own and is potentially for sale. Cool.

    I think it should be: Temporary (i.e. domes, yurts, etc), self sufficient, experimental and open to all. It could be a great place to visit, collaborate, hang out and be inspired by the integration of art, the land and the energy people bring. Keep it simple and let it evolve over time.

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  • Doublejack says:

    Ah, the nattering nabobs of negativity — how reliable you are!

    I think the possibilities are exciting and I have high hopes for this nascent idea.

    1997 was one of my favorite years as well — I spent a lot of time on that land leading up to the event working with Harley and Will and the rest of the pre-DPW crew prepare the Hulapai playa for Black Rock City, and I really fell in love with the area.

    Good luck, and if there’s anything I can do to help please don’t hesitate to holler!

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  • nick says:

    Evolving and growing sounds like a great idea to me. And owning some land sounds like a great idea for creative freaks — and it’s American as Apple Pie.

    To those who worry about the environmental impacts: we should worry about POPs and GHGs before we worry about some buildings in the desert.

    Although I’m not part of the Borg, I’m a long-time burner who has dealt with the organization as an artist and theme camper (for over 8 years). They have earned my trust and respect by always being available, honest and true to their values.

    It’s amazing how the event has grown, but also stayed close to the original vision. To those who throw cynical barbs, I say: grow up or start your own party.

    To those who are dreaming big, I say: GO FOR IT! Lay down the marker and a crew of hardcore dreamers will be there to support and mutate your vision. That, to me, is what Burning Man is all about

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  • I say buy it and see what happens. A place for year-round activities sounds like a good idea to me. The event, itself, should remain on the playa, though.

    Plan? There ain’t no plan!

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  • Laetor says:

    Sounds like the Borg are thinking about the future, as they should. I have confidence they’re not going to let 50,000 tourists all try to pack into a single hot tub, as some have suggested. (Srsly? You really think that’s how things would go? Dang.) It sounds like growth, it sounds like opportunity, and it sounds like people trying to figure out how to keep this whole thing going year-round, with facilities to foster collaboration and retreats to help recovery. I am all for this. Thanks, Larry and others for thinking ahead and planning the roadmap to the future!

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  • teco/chapin says:

    …change is not only useful , but necessary for growth. Are we really the community we profess to be? moving to such an enchanted and fragile environment will not only test the heart, guts an essence of the BM community, but will allow us to take the next step in the evolution of our growth as a unique community that seeks , among other things, a balance within its members, the promised land, the kingdom of the soul, a rest in the journey of life. Would we survive, or, would we perish?…….

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  • Epiphany Starlight says:

    Wow… sounds like PermaBurn… I liked it then and I like it now.

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  • Sunshine says:

    Looking at the initial questions you asked, Larry, they are indeed worth pondering. You asked, “What if…”

    1) What if . . . there were a place that people could come together, people who believed in the values and principles of Burning Man, and who wanted to find ways of applying those principles in the default world … of bringing them home from the playa.

    2) What if . . . there were a place where the energy and creativity and approach to living that flowers in Black Rock City for a week every year could be sustained and nurtured?

    3) What if . . . there were a conference center where thinkers and do-ers could get together to plot and scheme and think?

    I wholeheartedly say … Build your castles in the sky, then come back to the planet and get to work on building the staircase to get there!!! YES!!! YES!!! YES!!! Go for it and allow Burning Man to change and grow and become even more than previously imaginable. Let the ideals that started BM years ago find a home at Fly if it’s truly available for purchase. Let all burners have a taste of Playa and hot springs simultaniously. Allow BM to evolve, transform, and become even more than it set out to be all those years ago.

    Surely, we all know change is not easy (it represents embracing the ‘unknown’) or to some even downright difficult or impossible to rejoice in. Yet, which one of us has ever been content with the status quo? Which one of us is the same as we were 1 minute, 1 hour, 1 day, 1 month, 1 year, 5yrs, 10yrs, or even 50yrs ago? Change happens and when we ‘go with the flow’ amazing things are bound to occur. It’s always easier to flow with the current than it is to fight your way up the river. To all those that feel a need to constantly resist change (yes, you there, paddling upstream as hard as you can), try turning your boat around, head downstream, and go with the flow for awhile. You may even find peace and begin to enjoy the ride while effortlessly floating along.

    Embrace the new and unknown. Welcome it. Dream it. Be it. Live it. Help others find their way to it. Welcome all who may see the Castle in the Sky, then get to work helping to build the staircase!!! While it may seem difficult, rest assured it is ultimately rewarding.

    You asked, “What if…?” I say, put me down for a slice of Fly, Larry. I’ll see you there.

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  • Sunshine says:

    Oops, looks like I gave “What if…?” credits to Larry instead of John. Sorry, guess I still have BurnLag.

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  • I applaud the org for beginning to inform Burners about this planning process. Of course fears will be provoked.

    Figuring out how to effectively collaborate with many people is hard, and all the more worth doing for the tremendous value that might be obtained. It’s really hard though.

    There are many unknowns, but, based on faith and hope, I say buy it.

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  • I’ve never read this blog before but, as the things being discussed here will have a direct impact on my family, neighbors, and myself, it behooves me to comment.

    My name is Jason S. Walters and, along with my wife and daughter, I live almost directly across the street from the Fly Geyser. We are some of the roughly thirty inhabitants of the Hualapai Valley. In fact, there are nine inhabited ranches, farms, or facilities in the valley: Granite Ranch, Midian Ranch, Black Rock Station (of course), Dog Ranch, Jackson Ranch, Orient Farms, the Fascio Ranch, and the Spoo Place. Though I am a relative newcomer having only lived there full time for three years, there are people who have lived in the valley for decades. The valley’s population includes two children, and that number will probably increase over the next few years.

    I’m generally a fan and a friend of Burning Man. I’ve attended the festival ten times and have numerous friends that work full or part time for Burning Man LLC. The community of Gerlach (our town, in essence) benefits economically from the event, and its spinoff company of Black Rock Solar has done fine work putting up solar systems for the high schools in Gerlach, Nixon, and Wadsworth. I’ve also seen Black Rock Station evolve from what was basically an 80-acre junkyard into an organized, well-run facility… in part due to a bit of arm twisting from neighbors and Washoe County, but that’s water under the bridge, as they say. In the end the LLC put its money where its mouth is and built a great facility. And that’s what counts.

    I like art too. Especially art that catches on fire and explodes. That’s part of what’s cool about living in the Black Rock Desert.

    BUT… and this is a very big but… ultimately those of us who live in the Hualapai Valley do so because it is remote, seldom visited, and has a low-population density. Or, to put it another way, we live there because Gerlach is too crowded for us. So what sounds like a very exciting project to all of you sounds kind of threatening to our way of life, especially if the goal is to make the Hualapai Flats the permanent home of the festival itself. That’s…kind of hard to contemplate, though I know it’s been there before. I was at that one myself.

    Still, Tina and I sacrificed everything to get away from San Francisco. Now it looks like arrangements are being made to bring the city we fled to our doorstep. #sigh# There’s probably a lesson there somewhere.

    In any case, I’d like to ask a few questions of the Burning Man LLC, as once again this project could effect my family. What do you mean by a “conference center,” exactly? How big will it be? How much will the traffic on State Route 34 increase? How much noise will its (presumably large) diesel generators create? How many more people will live in the valley? How will it effect the antelope, mustang, and other animals that currently rely on the property for their water?

    Is the Bright Holland Corporation selling you the water rights along with the property? If not, are you aware that there are very real long-term plans to pump the Hualapai Valley’s water to the Reno area via a pipeline? It’s not talked about publicly, but the “nervous politicians” mentioned in the post certainly know about it. After all, the Hualapai Valley is one of only two places in Nevada where basin-to-basin transfers are still permitted under state law: and if they do build that pipeline, that geyser won’t stay one for very long, no matter what they’re telling you.

    In conclusion, there’s plenty of room in the Black Rock Desert for everyone. There may even be plenty of room in the Hualapai Valley for everyone who wants to actually live there. But with all of the discussion of “community” on this blog, I would like to point out that the Black Rock Desert already has a community of some 300 or so people, including those of us that live in the Hualapai Valley. What is being proposed on this blog will definitely impact that existing community. And, while we are generally neither “progressive” or even “interesting,” we do actually live there – and I fear that few of us were included amongst the beautiful people being fed appetizers and drinks under the moonlight.

    -Jason Walters, Midian Ranch, 1287 State Route 34

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  • It should be noted that to my recollection, whatever you may think of Fly, it is not a natural thing. My understanding it is a result of drilling which opened channels to the geothermal waters, who found another path after that and made the geyser. This does not mean it is necessarily the right thing to exploit it and change it, simply that it should not be treated as a natural landscape feature of ancient origin which a special need for preservation.

    If the event moved to Fly (my first BM was 1998 so I missed that one) it would change the character quite a bit. Though having been to 12 I am quite ready for such change.

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  • chris johnson says:

    in case you misunderstood me, leave the damm geyser alone.
    it don’t need starbucks.

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  • Griffin says:

    Do they want to move the event to Fly, or is the org just buying that land?

    Who’s to say that they aren’t buying the land for their own purposes, and planing to keep the event where it is.

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  • Cowgirl says:

    “What if there were a conference center where thinkers and do-ers could get together to plot and scheme and think?

    Burning Man, as an organization, thinks that place is Fly Hot Springs.”

    UHM – Don’t. Don’t fuck up another pristine piece of land. Just DON’T.

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  • bob dobbes says:

    I find it funny that so many of you are concerned with “screwing up” these hot springs that are a result of human activity anyway.

    Consider the amount of natural resources that are plundered every year for whatever reason. A couple hundred or even a couple thousand acres of scrub and desert is a drop in the bucket, especially for a worthy cause.

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  • bob dobbes says:

    “Then four of us found our way into Hualapai Flat—a roundish playa embraced by a circle of small hills that is perfectly the size of Burning Man. A low blanket of clouds obscured the full moon until the heat from the playa burned a enormous circle directly overhead. As the moon brilliantly lit the white playa, we saw the future Burning Man. ”

    It sounds like they’re at least considering moving the event itself to BMorg owned land.


    1) No more BLM goons. Security would obviously have to be provided, and county cops would still have jurisdiction, but additional uniformed security could be bussed in from say, San Francisco.

    2) No more BLM extortion. Imagine how much land or stuff or whatever $1 million per year could buy.

    3) Some sort of permanent BMan. I probably would not participate in this, but the possibilities are exciting.

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  • I had got a desire to begin my organization, however I didn’t earn enough of cash to do it. Thank heaven my close friend told to utilize the loan. Thus I used the secured loan and made real my desire.

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  • Lalit says:

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