~ Leaving No Trace ~
The Burning Man community respects the environment. We are committed to leaving no physical trace of our activities wherever we gather. We clean up after ourselves and endeavor, whenever possible, to leave such places in a better state than when we found them.
Everything comes to an end. Each year, with columns of smoke still rising from the ashes of our shared experience, we pack our dusty belongings, dusty bodies and dustier dreams for our return to civilization. It can be an enlightening, contemplative, or even challenging experience—but however we feel about leaving, our homes, jobs, and people are calling us back.
But what happens when you can’t leave?
You may have experienced something like this: When Burning Man is over, you find yourself with more possessions than you can carry out. Camp members depart early, leaving shade structures and kitchens for their friends. Cars break down. Plans fall through. Sometimes, the stuff that packed so neatly in the dust-free world just doesn’t fold up very well after a week on the playa.
This is where the Leave No Trace principle gets sticky. When it’s time to go, and you can’t take it all with you, what can you do? Your neighbors can help, to a point—but their vehicles are packed to the roof, too. With no trash collection on playa and no easy way to make multiple trips, sometimes things just…get left behind.
Traditionally, we haven’t talked much about abandoned moop on this blog. As a community, Burning Man does a fantastic job of Leaving No Trace. The DPW Playa Restoration crew has immense respect for each Burner’s contributions, and we understand how and why things get left behind. But we do keep track of what we find, and where—and we do add large abandoned items to the Moop Map.
This year, for the first time, we’re releasing the map of abandoned moop.
We’re not posting details of what was found in each spot. If you are a theme camp, your Placement representative may have more detailed information for you in a few months (when the entire Moop Map is finalized). Please be patient: these are simply the results of our very first sweep through the city, and we have much more work to do before we can pass detailed information along.
So what does each of the red X’s represent? It could be garbage bags. Could be a greywater jug, a couch, a tent or just the tent stakes. Or it could be something worse. The X’s don’t represent the size or impact of the abandoned moop—just its location.
When a camp’s moop plan fails
Campers at Gypsy Flower Power International (a theme camp at 4:20 & Haifa) seem to have found themselves in an extraordinarily moopy situation, when their planned infrastructure apparently failed. As a result, the camp abandoned a 4-foot-high “mountain” of trash; a broken shade structure; a rolled-up tent; a dirty mattress; burn barrels full of ash; lumber; big oil and greywater stains; jugs of mystery fluids; and an array of smaller items.
It may be the worst impact we’ve ever seen a camp leave on the playa.
We don’t know why or how this situation got so out of control. So, we’re asking: What happened? Why did Gypsy Flower Power abandon its moop on this scale?
We do know that some camp members reached out to the community, to the 4:30 neighborhood, and to DPW for help. What we don’t understand is why their plans failed so completely. How did they wind up abandoned in Black Rock City with more moop than they could possibly pack out?
Gypsy Flower Power: the Playa Restoration crew respects every Burner’s efforts to Leave No Trace on the playa, and that includes your efforts. Nobody in the Burning Man community likes to see something like this happen, and we certainly don’t want to see it happen again. If you’re out there, please enlighten the people of Black Rock City. What’s your story, and what can we all learn from your experience?
That’s all for now. Very soon, we’ll post the first Moop Map scores. Stay tuned to find out how your camp fared.
Want more photos & goodies from the Playa Restoration team? Search #BM2014. You can also follow The Hun: Facebook – Twitter – Instagram.
What a surprise: http://postimg.org/image/cjz02xoxd/
Report comment
What a terrible way to leave the playa (or anywhere really)! I certainly hope that there WAS a moop plan, that SOMEONE dropped the ball, that there is a logical EXPLANATION for this.
This is never acceptable of course. This is an abhorrent failure of everyone in Gypsy Flower Power camp, not any one individual or group but the entire camp.
Thankfully, this is not the norm but the exception. However, we still have WAY too many exceptions happening.
Report comment
I’ve had talks with the main dude behind this “camp” a couple of years ago. His logistics are just insanely wrong and sketchy. He acts up chill like everything will work out by itself but does not work a single minute on what matters when it comes to the people he brings together under a promise of dj booth, booze, meals and shades.
He tried to merge with another camp (powerfist), collected some of the other camp’s dues to bring simple stuff like shade or coolers and when he showed up empty handed, he was surprised to see his group to be kicked out.
This makes me sad and angry, but I am definitely not surprised to see that. This dude is an idiot, but the worst part is that he brought other people to that end.
Report comment
Huge bummer. They were pretty easy to find on FB: https://www.facebook.com/groups/1380171785550593/
I would be wary of publicly shaming like this, I’m sure they had some serious issue and couldn’t take anything back.
Eh, never mind. This is pretty shameful.
Report comment
>How did they wind up abandoned in Black Rock City with more moop than they could possibly pack out?
The usual case in such scenarios is that the camp brought out a sparkle pony who had sex with the camp leader (as sparkle ponies often do). And when the camp leader’s girlfriend found out (as they usually do) she went ballistic and exploded like an emotional hand grenade. Then after a long counselling session with everyone’s friend Jack, the girlfriend grabbed the keys to the 24ft moving truck that had become their bedroom and bolted to 447 at a high rate of speed with the gate still open in the middle of the night. Some cocaine may also have been involved.
Report comment
red X’s at Caravancicle and the Lost Hotel, I guess they couldn’t afford a MOOP Sherpa!?
Report comment
From their Facebook page:
“We also do all garbage and recycle removal”
Report comment
@redBone
‘Leave no Trace’ was the last item to be checked off the list of principles to be violated.
Report comment
if it is the guy that I’m thinking of who runs this camp, this really saddens me. I didn’t think he was this kind of guy. Please tell us what the hell went on!
Report comment
I am absolutely not surprised. The guy who runs this camp is a loser and a scumbag. I spoke with him a few years ago about his camp, and one of the first things I saw him do on his facebook page was sell scalped tickets to his campers. When I called Jonny Moonshine out on it, he tried to jusitfy it, then he deleted me from the facebook group. This, along with the obvious fact that his operations and leadership skills are garbage is why I say, Fuck this guy and this camp.
Report comment
I grew up in the same small town as Jonny Moonshine in Minnesota. He was a no good dirty rotten trickster and the black sheep of his family. He never did nothing good for no one. One day I went to his house to pick up some milk for my Ma, and that Jonny Moonshine kicked my dog so hard that dod didn’t walk straight for a week. He still owes me $20.
Report comment
Dear Resto Team and Burner community,
I camped with Gypsy Flower Power until I was kicked out of their camp, thankfully, on Thursday. The head of the camp, a man from Hawaii named Jonathan Nutter, who goes by the name Moon Shine, scammed everyone in the camp for tens of thousands of dollars. He did this by creating a FB page for the camp, and inviting over 250 people from around the world to pay aprox. $250 a pop (some paid less). Dues were to cover tents, bikes, food, water, showers, shade, a stage and bar, waste managemet, etc. This was primarily meant to meet the needs of international travelers who stepped off the plane in reno with only their luggage. The whole thing was a scam. Jonathan Nutter ripped off these people, as he provided none of the above. In fact, he never even showed up at the camp until Thursday. I was personally kicked out of the camp at this point, as I was the only person to publicly confront him on this issue. He ripped off the entire Nordic Regional crew, as well as everyone else. As a result, I was sheltering “homeless” people in my tent, and my bike got stolen in my own camp since people felt entitled to bikes which they paid for. i organized a recycling and composting system for the camp, using my own personal bins, since there were none for the camp. I also mooped the camp CONSTANTLY, to no avail, and when Moon Shine got in my face after finally showing up, his words to me were, “All you ever do is pick up trash because you are a fucking piece of trash. Get the fuck out or I’m kicking your ass and calling the Rangers.” Well, he did call the rangers, who escorted me out of the camp. But not before I filed a report of harassment and theft. DPW, please see the Ranger report log for more info. I also did one last Moop sweep before I left the camp on Thursday, in my attempt to leave as gracefully as possible.
Not only did Moon Shine get away with this, but he has done this at least three times before, including last year (2013).I know this from talking to people on the playa.
The story gets worse than that too, because he promised multiple people tickets which were to be held at will call, and had said people pay pal him the money. Only when they arrived from Europe, there were no tickets.
I am writing this from my phone and apologize for any errors in spelling and organization. I would like to write up a more formal report to document Moon Shine’ss behavior and get testimony from other witnessness and victims of abuse, in order to prevent such abuses from occurring in the future.
If you have any questions, please feel free to email me.
Sincerely,
Journey aka Moopsie Daisy.
Report comment
Wow, Journey, thanks for the story. It is sadder than I expected it to be. I’m deeply sorry to hear this. I know (because I know you personally) that you’re a truly dedicated Burner and I trust that you did your very best. We’ll talk more.
Report comment
I have well documented proof of this slime balls actions. He needs to be banned from the event and arrested in the default.
DPW and any interested parties, feel free to to contact me for pictures, emails, phone convos, and web chats with this sorry excuse of a person.
In a nutshell:
-his stance on MOOP.
-direct threats
-joining our camp with a group, making promises, and bailing.
-the same thing happens every year, finally glad this got to the point of action.
Report comment
I actually met someone from 4:20 and H by chance. His name was Liam and on the morning after Embrace burned, I was waiting for a toilet at 4:30 and H. This guy Liam came walking up to the toilets and fell flat on his back, unresponsive. I was the first person on the scene, trying to help him, getting him back sitting up and trying to get some water in him until we were able to flag down the rangers 10 minutes later. Someone that walked up to the bathrooms knew where he was camped and told us he was from the 4:20 and H camp. I never did make it over there to make sure he was okay before we left, but if anyone could point me in his direction, I am truly worried about him still and want to make sure he made it out of the Burn okay.
If anyone knows Liam and how things turned out that morning, could you please contact me and let me know? Thanks.
Report comment
Wow, even the large plug and play camps at 9 and k, the lost hotel and caravancicle left multiple abandoned items at their camps. They can’t even pay people to clean up properly. I really hope this affects the placement and directed sales these camps receive. I understand cleaning up and breaking down is the worst part of having a camp, but this is ridiculous. Take some responsibility for yourself and what you bring to the playa.
Report comment
I remember Moon Shine spamming all summer just about every BM Facebook group (I’m a member of) looking for members. It seemed like he didn’t have a clue, or was running a Plug and Play pyramid scheme. At times his posts came off to me as looking for the clueless to join. I even remember one comment he left on a person looking for a camp post about the open FB group to join, and then saying there is a secret group as well. The whole thing was just red flags wrapped in hippie love from my view point.
It sucks that people got screwed. But at the same time going off of the postings over the summer I doubt all but a few people in that camp even attempted to step up, and do the right thing. I could be wrong. But everything about this camp, and how it was organized speaks to the worst our event will become.
Report comment
I helped one of the Will-Call orphans (Jenny) get a message (Monday) to Moonshine, who did come up with at least two tickets. As of Tuesday, he was still AWOL from his own camp and scathingly denounced by numerous swindled members. He eventually showed up with a trailer full of “stuff”, but not what was contracted. Since he specifically targeted international Burners arriving by air and the Bus, he HAD TO have known there would be extra “stuff” to haul out. He apparently hadn’t the capacity or the will to do so. When I did meet Moonshine, he was friendly and mildly apologetic, but seemed to think the “stuff” he’d brought fulfilled his obligations. Federal law applies at BRC and it would appear he may be chargeable for wire fraud, mail fraud, conspiracy, witness retaliation, AND littering.
Report comment
ha, what else do people expect with the theme “caravanersary” other than being ripped off by some shyster? although on a more serious note, i’m curious what BM’s statement is on how this guy is allowed to come back every year, and how they intend on preventing these abuses in the future. Also, caveat emptor.
Report comment
This map is just further evidence that the wealthy plug-n-play campers are not supporting the event or the ten principles at all.
Report comment
I visit the MOOP Masters this year on Wednesday and as I arrived I was met by a nice guy from Germany who was literally begging for rice. He said they were told there were meals, he hadn’t eaten for a day and asked, how can I find food. I was shocked.
I told the nice chap that you can find food but you need to do you share. Find camps needing dishes washed, check out farmers market, go to volunteer sign up and find some work. I didn’t say The Playa Provides, I just said, there are ways to make things work, but you’ll need to use some common sense and get some help.
But man, what a real downer. Most of these folks came with the best intentions and they were scammed by a con artist. Darn shame, these were good people who good literally robbed by a very bad situation.
Report comment
This constitutes the most serious threat to Burning Man longevity.
Report comment
Ashe, Liam was taken to rampart and released later that day feeling good. Thank you for your compassion and kindness.
Report comment
Here is his Facebook page if any of the higher ups are looking for contact info:
https://www.facebook.com/jonnymoonshine12
Report comment
@Ashe- Liam was just fine. After a few hours of rest and such he ended up having a great burn. Hope the helps :)
Report comment
Moon Shine’s GoFundMe and other links:
http://www.gofundme.com/18qpj8
http://www.gofundme.com/igm38
Facebook page:
https://www.facebook.com/jonnymoonshine12
Report comment
you cannot blame leaving this mess on one damn person. It’s every single person in the camp’s responsibility to leave the camp as clean as possible. If this was happening, aa alternate plan should have been devised but the group.
Report comment
Explains why so many bikes were stolen in our neighbourhood (4:30 & I).
Report comment
moopsie daisy, not only did you give a great account of what went on at that camp, but you have the best playa name ever. and you’ve obviously earned it. thank you for doing your part. i hope this guy (and any loyal followers he may have) gets reamed for this. i’m not an attorney, but if he scammed multiple people for tickets totaling thousands of dollars, and there’s documentation to prove it, then it sounds to me like there’s a solid lawsuit to be filed here. there’s power in numbers. the more of your campmates who are willing to prove that they were scammed, the bigger the charge and the bigger the punishment for this guy. and jailbars might be the only thing keeping him off the playa next year.
Report comment
How does the BMorg handle situations like this for placement in future years? If a camp has a really horrible MOOPrint are they no longer eligible for theme camp placement and perks?
Report comment
I’m not surprised to see this. The main guy behind this camp (Moon Shine) is known for hyping up camps and then not helping out in any way/shape/form.
He did this not too long ago at a Rainbow Gathering Festival up near Hawaii. Same thing happened. The camp fell apart and he didn’t help out in any way. The whole thing turned out to be a pretty bad experience.
So sorry this happened yet again. Total disrespect towards everything Burning Man!
Report comment
100% Clean for my camp at 9:15 and I, and a part of it had to do with someone who confronted me about kicking a bag toward the fence. It actually wasn’t moop, and I was just holding it for someone … but he ripped into me so bad… I basically got the idea from the get go. Not a single little dot of stuff left anywhere near where we camped, fish tank + I. We were Aussies, Americans, Canadians and Swiss French. Someone in an RV pulled up late (like Friday Morning) and there was a dot on the map at the end of the block where they were… but that’s ok. I’ll get all up in they grille next year, just like that guy did to me this year and we’re going to be cool.
Report comment
Hi, I was part of a group of about 30 virgins from London, we were all ripped off by this con artist, we payed him thousands and got nothing in return, luckily we had tickets, water and shelter unlike some of the other groups in the camp, upon realising that we had been duped we set our Rv’s up on the outskirts of the camp and had no further involvement. I speak for all of us when I say that we feel ashamed to be associated with this mess and that we all followed the principles and left no trace. There were alot unsurprisingly pissed off people in this camp and it’s unfortunate that they decided to protest in this fashion but in a way good that this scumbag has been brought to light, I just hope that he is banned from this event in future. It tarnished what was a memorable and beautiful experience for us.
Report comment
His personal facebook page is open and anyone can ask him why his camp failed there….
Report comment
Hi Turner, this isn’t the final Moop Map! Just the big stuff. We’ll have official scores coming up soon, stay tuned… Thanks for mooping!
Report comment
IMHO the whole plug and play – buy it from someone else experience, needs to be banned. The very visible effect of allowing a timeshare experience is apparent and clear… not only did the Gypsy Flower Power / camp utterly fail but it also messed up the experience for those within. The element of the playa that requires us, as people, to not only confront the conditions and deal with them ON OUR OWN but also to be a member of a community of others who are dealing with them on THEIR OWN … is part of all of this… and when you allow camps to “timeshare” and “rent out” their space you end up removing that. Everyone is responsible for their own camp, and if they’re camping with others… they still take out their OWN STUFF. Nobody should be setting up timeshares, except occidental oasis, which is a fine real estate corporation and a member of the better business bureau. ( I want the sultan!)
Report comment
This fellow was trying to have a PnP camp, obviously–and there have been reports of problems similar to this in other PnPs where folks were ripped off by the operators of them to varying degrees. I think this is a baby elephant growing in the BM living room and needs to be addressed, and addressed openly and with vigor. There are some class-action lawsuits waiting to happen here if the BMorg doesn’t practice more oversight in the future with these sort of camps–they PLACED them and give them Directed Sales tickets–so some lawyer is gonna say that they are culpable for the actions of shady camp leads like this. Just a heads up, BMorg–if any of you ever read these comments.
Report comment
The truck, which was rented by a friend since moonshine didn’t show with our money, was supposed to carry all this moop.
Since the truck seems to have vanished …
This guy also took money from camp fees to pay his flight tickets, which is not acceptable.
I feel very sorry that all this happened.
Best quote from Moonshine “i left your early arrival pass under a rock near the gate”.
Report comment
Yes it is everybody’s responsibility. But what if the members of the camp do not understand the culture? What if the members were all international or all newbies and because of the condition of the camp never became acculturated?
Report comment
I was originally part of the camp, arriving late Tuesday night. The camp was in big disarray and items I had paid camp dues for to be there were not. A friend who was supposed to stay in the camp together with me had already decided to move elsewhere, I followed the next day. For the size of the camp, very little organization was there. I never got to meet the organizer, called Moon Shine (first name Johnny?), or the person I had sent my camp fees to (Tara Reynolds). I checked in one more day (Thursday), and a few things (but not all) that were supposed to be part of the camp had been built up or provided. All in all it was a camp with a large number of people, most of which seemed rather young and internationals, which would naturally not have the most resources, as they have to fly into the country. I highly recommend not letting the organizers of the camp step up in the future to have another camp.
Report comment
I don’t know this Flower Power camp, or the guy who ran the camp.
I do know Journey though, as she lived in our house in Berkeley for a month at the beginning of this year.
She spent that month trying to convince me to start a MOOPing camp with her, and fantasized about going around educating Burners about MOOPing on playa.
What happened is truly crap, and while I sit here on my computer I think of the amazing Resto team still out there in the dust, cleaning up after this jerk camp.
Thank you DPW. Y’all kick ass.
Report comment
Here is a pic from their 2012 incarnation that seems to line up with all that has been said.: http://www.davidkupferberg.com/index.php#mi=2&pt=1&pi=10000&s=3&p=9&a=0&at=0
..and a link to a gofundme campaign.. Apparently, he was funding the camp with more that just dues from campers but with donations from others…using other folks’ movies and art to sell it… http://www.gofundme.com/18qpj8
Report comment
Apparently they thought it was Glastonbury. NOT cool.
Report comment
Place them next to Voted Best Camp next year. :)
Report comment
Hello,
I had friends in this camp. They were not going for the plug and play experience. They’ve been successfully running awesome camps and projects at regional burns. They fully understand and embrace the Burning Man ethos.
They came equipped and worked hard.
They did their best to save what could be saved but basically they got ripped off and spent a lot of their burn trying to set up / fix a communal infrastructure for 200+ people with no materials, no lead and nothing planned.
You can’t blame it on all the campers.
Report comment
MOOPACABRA has some people to haunt.
Report comment
While hanging out in Camp Yellow Line (on the side of the road from Gerlach) on Monday, my wife and I befriended some British virgins camping at Gypsy Flower Power. The camp consisted of a large number of international travelers who paid hefty dues for promises of being able step off of a plane in Reno and have a bunch of services provided for them. This was a badly run turnkey camp that over promised, under delivered, and likely profited by doing so.
Report comment
Aaron, this is why turnkey camps need to be discouraged if not forbidden. It is the antithesis of participation.
Report comment
You most certainly CAN blame the campers. When infrastructure fails, they SILL have an obligation to LNT. Period. You dont leave the Playa until all of your stuff is figured out. As an example, we had to leave behind campers until the big truck came to pick up our trailer. You cant just leave it there hoping the truck shows up. No, you wait.
Report comment
I know nothing about the specifics of this situation, but agree with the sentiments and rage of everyone posting.
I would like to compliment The Hun for an extremely well written article on this untenable situation. Not only does it bring attention to this specific camp, but it let’s other know that this type of behavior is NEVER acceptable.
For those among us who walked their camps for hours looking for tiny specs of waste, and for those among us who stopped in public areas and picked up stray trash, THANK YOU ALL. Our burner community remains committed and strong.
Report comment
I’m not going to comment on the pile of trash left – pictures tell it all. However can add a bit to the history…
3 of us signed up to camp with Gypsy Flower Power, were supposed to get early passes to build – usual stuff, you know. Everything seemed to go pretty well in the beginning of summer. I camped with small & large camps before and once the number of signed up burners went over 200, the whole thing started to look a bit suspicious – I do have an idea of how much effort, time and $ it takes to run something of that scale. Together with promised bikes, tents, shades, water, food and you name it, the fishy smell was getting persistent… Long story short – for some unexplained reason MoonShine couldn’t email early passes, said he would give them out at his friends farm few miles out of Reno. That, of course, never happened – been there 3 times, he never showed up. Next thing he said he was going to leave them under some rock by BM entrance sign. By that time (Friday 22nd) none of ~30 pple waiting for him at the farm believed that crap. Quite a few folks haven’t had the tickets, counting on MoonShine to deliver them as promised. Relatively large number were virgins with pretty vague idea of what was awaiting them on the playa and how to get ready for it. By late Friday it was clear that the camp was a total no-go as projected and 3 of us ended up camping elsewhere. The whole thing turned out to be a total shame, since it pretty much ruined the first impression of BM for so many people who came from 13 or so countries. Quite a few of them are trying to get their $ back via PayPal – not sure it will work out though. As for MoonShine – this crook has to be banned forever – again, the procedure on that is still has to be figured out. And, of course, PnP camps should be avoided – those, who doubt it are welcome to sign up for the next MoonShine venture next year and trust him on every promise.
Report comment
Maybe people will get the memo that this is not the way to burn. You know, radical self reliance and all that.
In the meantime this guy should be charged. All anyone would have to do is call their local FBI office and they would open an investigation into the allegations of fraud, etc. It’s really that easy.
Report comment
This is the real danger of PnP camps, not that some rich tech dudes are having a way too expensive but half as good Las Vegas party but Virgin burners thinking this is common and then not only getting ripped off but being stuck out in the middle of the desert to fend for themselves.
I’m glad burners are so generous and well prepared, this could have led to a death or hospitalization.
Report comment
@ Todd Jensen
No, you can’t blame it on ALL the campers.
Some of them worked really, really hard trying to fix things and it could have been way worse.
You can’t say they’re responsible just because they paid camp fees for this camp.
Report comment
@Journey
Moon Shine responded to your post on a thread where you never commented on the 4:30 Sector FB group. I think he’s confusing you for a FB user (Brigit):
Moon Shine I will meet you in court brigit AKA Ashley moonwalker AKA journey i have receipts and proof of all money spent and money donated to camp via pay pal lol your a liar just like how you told entire camp I made and printed out the 30 early arrival passes I had in my hand to hand out to people in Reno lol and how you said we weren’t a registered theme camp and our group page was fake and how you said I wasn’t at burning man lol what happened to those lies? Oh they all are documented truth on my part just like every lie you spew I will prove you’re lying. that’s why rangers kicked you out and got back all the peoples items you aquired somehow while snooping around ppls private areas at camp lol I was going to let this slandering all slide and your little camp mutiny go because I’m above petty ppl like you but now I will bring legal actions against you and the other guilty party. Lol 125 ppl paid 25-75 dollars in camp donations some paid 50 for us to get them a bike or tent and deliver it and we did that as in buying a bike for 25-50 bucks them letting them use on playa lol your so far off base and your lies created chaos and who knows how so many bikes got stolen on playa but instead if helping me organize you chose to gather ppl and try to form a mutiny and when you approached my wife at camp lol not knowing she’s my wife and my friends and spewed your venom they caught you lying and that’s when you were removed from camp. Your violent, unstable nature in this comment if yours shows your true colors good job… I may not be the best leader but I tried and did what I said id do and u really care and try to make a communal camp of participators and did nothing to harm anything
Report comment
Wow, um that sounds like someone that should never been allowed back on playa.
Also, “camp mutiny” lol! Avast ye scurvy dogs is this mutiny I hear? To davy Jones locker with ye!
Report comment
This discussion is very illuminating, to say the least. Thanks to all who are chiming in, and don’t forget to keep your cool despite this total he-said she-said situation. We’ll figure it out, and in the meantime, it’s just a bit of trash.
Report comment
wow….now that is definitely “named and shamed”!
Report comment
I know a woman who paid to camp in Gypsy Flower Power. I ended up feeding her and a friend dinner one night after learning they had no food and hadn’t eaten all day. Totally ridiculous. Luckily, those two were adopted by another camp that took good care of them. I feel terrible for other folks in that camp who didn’t have as easy a time of finding help.
Report comment
“I may not be the best leader but I tried and did what I said id do” Lol. funny how he threatens to sue, yet many people from his camp chimed in on this thread alone talking about how they got scammed. You got bigger problems then suing one person and blaming them.
At the end of the day – there is a photo of trash from your camp. So blaming someone who got kicked out of camp on thursday is a little bit of a lame deflect.
The blog states this, “It may be the worst impact we’ve ever seen a camp leave on the playa.”
Think about that for a second. Burning Man has been out there for decades and your camp left some of the worst impact. That’s not just being “may not be the best leader” but in the running for possibly the worst.
Report comment
Gypsy Flower Power 2013 Tickets link
http://www.brownpapertickets.com/event/287707
Report comment
I hate to say it, but one person is not responsible for the mess of 100+ campers. It’s called radical self reliance for a reason. This event is a ‘leave no trace e’vent. Your camp as a whole failed at following these principles. Even if your leader was a horrible leader that doesn’t mean you can use him as a scapegoat for failing at your own personal duties as a “burner”.
Report comment
I just did the research, this could have been solved for less than $150 in truck rental charges plus gas. If you don’t feel like cleaning it after pay the extra $100 for cleaning fee and split all this among the campers. All it would have taken is a few people waiting 6 hours to leave and dropping trash at a dump along the way. The camp members are responsible for this even if they were scammed. This is inexcusable.
Report comment
This post and the comments are hilarious. Thanks for making my Friday afternoon.
popcorn.jpg
Report comment
This was my first year at Burning Man, and let me just say that it was definitely an initiation for me. I was one of the campers with Gypsy Flower Power and a lot of us are really disappointed, embarrassed and angry at how things turned out. First off, I’m glad that even though I was a newbie, I came completely prepared and self-reliant. If I had to rely on any of those wobbly shade structures, dirty showers, and even filthier kitchen, I’d have been SOL for sure.
So, here’s the lowdown:
I joined the Gypsy camp in January because they seemed to be the most active on Facebook at the time. The camp looked really interesting: 11 countries, performances, a caterpillar-shaped mutant vehicle, partnerships with other camps (the highly organized Nordic Crew, for one). And TONS of people (which, I discovered later is a really BAD idea because I realized by week’s end that I hadn’t even MET most of my campmates. I basically hung around with the 20 of us that arrived first on the Playa for set-up). With a rumored count of 188 members, how does one even monitor who belongs in the camp in the first place? I’m sure there were many interlopers just taking up space and making a mess. But I must say, before I continue, that I met a lot of really great people and hope to reconnect next year under a different, and much more organized camp – the first priority being that we all KNOW each other.
OK, so here goes:
BEER CANS – I’m a tad OCD, so I constantly putz around picking up trash because I hate when things are out of place. But after 4-5 days of picking up other people’s empty beer cans, some of them half-full and HOT with cigarette butts inside of them, I felt like I was waging a losing battle. The fact that I dislike the smell of beer made this task even more challenging, and I really started to resent it – even though I’d still do an occasional sweep if things got too messy. I had found out later in the week at Center Camp that you could donate your camp’s beer cans at the recycling center. So I came back to Camp on the last day and started crushing cans to take them back to the recycling center. After about 70 cans, I just gave up, because so many of them were filled with cigarette butts and roaches.
TRASH – Some of the people at our camp were so strung out that all they did was lie around in the shade, smoke, toke, drink and eat – and leave their trash EVERYWHERE. People, there were TWO GIANT BURN BARRELS in the middle of the camp. You couldn’t walk 5 steps and throw your butts, cardboard and paper in there instead of on the FLOOR?
By week’s end, what was once organized trash in the kitchen that had been initially separated into cans, bottles and food became just big black bags of “whatever”. There were some people that took over this trash-separating task later on in the day, and I’m not sure how far they got. I’m sure they became overwhelmed like me with the beer can situation. And the smell? I gag just thinking about it now.
KITCHEN – Well, I was looking forward to having an occasional group dinner, but that never seemed to happen, at least to my knowledge. My gift for my campmates was offering massage (I did an average of 4 per day, at my choice). So whenever there was a big meal being cooked, I was unaware (and usually in session), and by the time I’d come up for air, there’d be nothing left for me. At first, this bothered me a little, but after a few days, I was GLAD I brought all of my own food, because the kitchen became unbearably filthy. Other people would cook, then leave dirty dishes in the sink, and worse – leave perishable food lying out in the sun for hours. Even a couple of people who volunteered to cook backed away towards the end of the week because they couldn’t deal with the unsanitary conditions.
GREY WATER – As far as I could see, there really wasn’t an evaporation pond – all we had were empty water containers that we dumped our gray water into. These were next to – of all things – the SHOWERS. I think in the picture, that tarp was from the bottom of the “showers”, actually. Those were kind of scary – I stuck to my baby wipes and did just fine until I got to Reno for a real shower.
LEADERSHIP – The visionary for our camp over-promised and under-delivered, leaving a lot of not-so-radically-self-reliant campers SOL. The 2nd-in-command was left to basically put out fires and handle crises, but only one man can do so much. A few stepped in to help, but really? The situation was just so HUGE that it was almost impossible to manage.
I’m keeping my new Burner friends, and we’re moving along to create a better situation next year. One were people have a certain level of maturity and personal responsibility, and take the 10 Principles seriously.
After this “Trial By Fire”, I’m certain next year will be easier! 30 people MAX.
Thanks for your time.
Report comment
The blog states this, “It may be the worst impact we’ve ever seen a camp leave on the playa.”
I’ve seen worse exiting on Wednesday in 07 – an entire 30ft geo dome half torn apart and carpet and furniture. A pile of trash like in these pics is nothing compared to pulling apart twisted metal geo dome. Then there was the piano catapult in 96, smashed grand pianos left on the playa.
Report comment
Excellent MAP !
fuck tourism !
Report comment
2014 is showing the slippery slope that Burning Man is on.
The Burning Man principles include 1. de-commodification, 2) radical self-reliance,3) communal effort, 4)participation, 5)leave no trace, 6)radical inclusion 7) communal effort 8) gifting 9) civic responsibility 10)radical self-expression.
The Burning Man organization supports plug and play camps…because they argue its a way to spread the culture of burning man. But its seems rather than spreading Burning Man’s culture…they are distorting it, bastardizing it, poisoning it.
Instead of building off the notions of de-commodification and communal effort, the plug n’ play camps begin from the idea of PROFITING off of burners.
So Plug N’ Plays exist to PROFIT. And inherent in that model is the total disregard for the principles of de-commodification, self-reliance, inclusion, communal effort, participation…
It seems it hasn’t taken long for so many of these camps (Lost Hotel, Caravancicle and others on the map) to decide –if we can ignore five principles, why not ignore other principles…such as Leave No Trace. Thus, the piles of MOOP.
Whether the people organizing the camps are making money off of $25,000 dues or off $350 dues… the driving force is NOT to set up a participatory community that self-expresses and gifts, but rather to set up a camp from which they can make a PROFIT, the antithesis of de-commodification and gifting.
And some unscrupulous organizers figure that if they are allowed to make a profit with their theme camp.. why not make a greater profit by scamming and not delivering what is promised? Gypsy Flower Power is not the only when were people were scammed. The Burning Man facebook group (https://www.facebook.com/groups/burntheman/) has a number of other examples including Basshenge and an unscrupulous chef who took thousands of dollars for meals that were to be distributed at a camp that didn’t exist.
The question of course is what is the way forward? How dear do we hold our principles? How much are we willing to defend them and uphold them? What are the benefits and costs of allowing plug n’ play?
An artist friend who has worked at plug n’ play camps for the last three years defended them as his means of getting to the playa so he could gift his performances on the playa.
Is there another way to spread the authentic burning man culture to those afraid to make a self-reliant trip to the playa? Is there another way to financially support artists who could otherwise not come to the playa? One idea is for Burning Man to ban theme camps that hire workers and ban theme camps that make a profit…and to ask theme camps to set aside part of their dues to support artists coming to the playa.
What are other ways to make this all work in a manner that upholds our principles and remains inclusive both to those financially unable to support their playa gifts and those who are able to give more financially to the playa?
Report comment
I’ve been on the fence about pay and play camps, but I think a discussion needs to take place at the org on how they are going to police situations like this. It may be nessesary to establish “escrow” accounts for these camps and organizers don’t get the money unless they deliver on what they promise. But perhaps before we go down that road, we should consider not having pay and play camps.
Report comment
In my opinion as a 2nd time burner, although I do feel that I have been coming for many years, and I will be coming next year is. The ethos behind BM itself is one of self reliance and survival. Why is it, theme camps are allowed to advertise the fact that they will supply bikes, food and water?
There should be no exceptions. If your going into the desert for 7/10 days, you need to bring what you need to survive. You can not rely on anyone to help you on this. This is why I love BM so much. Total self reliance.
BAN THEME CAMPS THAT ARE EXPLOITING THE IGNORANT. Please, before its to late.
Peace, Love and Unity. xx
Report comment
Hi, i am contre and i was on this camp “Gypsy Flower Power”.
the start of the camp was a mess. I came from reno with burner express bus on saturday with the “only” real early entry pass, but this was not from Moon shine. I don’t know where he used the about 40 early entry passes as the team who was waiting on a farm in reno with rv and cars did not get these. Therefore i was the first and only one on the camp with the exception of the nordic core team which are located closed in one corner. I was surprised that on this huge area.. really no one was preparing anything or was already there. The team from the farm came sunday afternoon. We tried to post in facebook that there will be no chance that the promised “hostel”, “food” and “water” is in the camp and that everyone should take care and responsible for themselves to have this available before entering BRC, thanks to BMIR, who allowed me using their internet connection.
I already expected that the exodus of the team will end up in a mess but i did have a bus ticket and a fix date on monday noon and packed my 2 burner express bus trash bags for my trash und left the playa with a really bad feeling that nothing will work.
Very sad to read this now but when i left there was about 100 people still there.
We have seen that a lot of virgin burners just pit there moop and trash sacks in the kitchen area and leaving playa, expecting that others will take care on their shit. Clearly i guess these virgin burners might know that this is not okay but i guess they were angry about “no shade, water, food, bicycle” that they decided to act like this i would assume. For sure the last one left the area is now blamed but it is not this small team who might have gone with a much more worse feeling as this was just the end of a long journey that starts with scamming of several hundred people, no responsibility at all and i guess moon left also playa on sunday or monday. Moon and Tara (his paypal account managerin) are the source and “yes” the people in the camp failed to organize this themselfes. I personally have seen this as a social experiment but it is sad to see that it fails in such a way.
Report comment
I’ve got an idea. The dude is running a “business” so review him on Yelp. With the caveat that I don’t know what the rules are for adding a new business etc., the point would be to make sure when someone Googles his legal name, burner name, Gypsy Flower Power, or any other variation on theme, the Yelp review will be one of the first hits. All those folks from Europe probably did quite a bit of internet research, so maybe next year his bad press will follow him. When he changes his name or the camp name and tries to do this under some new alias–tie it back with a new link to the old name. Just tell the truth and relay your own personal experience, and you shouldn’t be at risk for any kind of libel claim.
Meanwhile, do file a criminal complaint–you’ve got plenty to work with. I’d help you bring a civil suit if I were licensed in Nevada. That guy sounds like scum of the Earth.
Report comment
I fear we’ve hit a critical mass where the aggregated cluelessness of newbies outweighs the aggregated wisdom of the city. It’s not happening evenly across the event, you see this imbalance worst in an example like this camp, but it’s happening more and more. And now folks are having to clean up the grey water that Coachella and Glastonbury are leaking onto the playa.
Report comment
This is unacceptable. While the leader seems an unsavory sort, 188 people also left a giant pile of trash behind. Radical self-reliance is a principal for a reason. How is paying your 250 and then expecting everything be provided not the exact same as a plug and play that we hear so many complaints about? In concept it is the same, and it is a violation of one of the core principals that they have in common, and is evidence of the importance of this principle. It will be interesting to see how the leadership addresses such an issue, as such behavior is surely to increase with the expansion of such camp models. Yes, its easier to pay your 250 bucks, or your 5k bucks to have someone else do it, and then just swoop in for only the fun parts. But easy does not equal good. And bringing this mentality to who you camp with, or how you run a camp, threatens to turn Burning Man into just another festival. I know Burning Man is not what it used to be, and that it never was, but I’d be very sad to see Burning Man turn into just some very expensive festival, where savvy or slimy dealers gobble up camp space to resell like real estate to those who dont want to, or cannot set up their own tent. Voyeurs who don’t feel like hauling their own garbage, or bringing their own imagination/skills/talents.
Report comment
It’s just plain WRONG for members of this camp to blame this one leader dude. You chose to camp there, sorry it was messed up, but the reality is when the situation is not ideal the camp needs to step up and FIX IT.
Not go party all day. Every member of this camp should apologize to the org, the DPW and the community. They are ALL at fault. I hope that happens, rather than excuses.
Report comment
This Moon Shine guy made a couple comments in the 4:30 Sector (closed) group on facebook:
http://i.imgur.com/yqyb3U0.png
http://i.imgur.com/93Y7hOG.png
Report comment
Moonshine says this on his facebook page (deleted other posts):
Moon Shine: Nope just put the pages [to his camp’s website] to secret as 150 of us are tired of the lies. the truth will come out in the court of law and the guilty parties will pay for slandering and bullying me and the theft of camp property unless it’s returned. I did nothing wrong accept trust a cpl ppl and try to run a communal camp accepting donations for only 25-75 bucks for fuel, firewood, etcetc and loaning bikes to ppl for 50 bucks. some ppl paid zero money as they brought supplies instead of donating cash. Most ppl had a great time others chose to believe lies that I wasn’t even a burner and didn’t go to bman then when I showed up the lies of me going to Mexico with tens of thousands of dollars didn’t make sense lol. so then they said i had no ea passes and when I presented them she said I made them and printed them out lol. then another guy said I sold ea passes lol all lies to sabotage a camp, pull a mutiny to have power of being the leader and I suppose try to convince my friends to join them in a new camp next year. Now after wanting the leader title they blame the moop on me too lol. I have proof and receipts and those who know the real story and witnessed rangers escorting one of the guilty ppl from camp all believe me and my lawyer is laughing at them. What’s sad and disappointing is we had a great camp and a lot of us spent alot of time, hard work and money and a cpl bad apples created chaos but truth always prevails
about an hour ago · Edited · Like
Moon Shine: Pending legal actions against those ppl I remained silent and have yet to reveal screen shots, receipts and delivery verification proof of all items I bought with camp donations
about an hour ago · Like
Moon Shine: I bought 2 tickets from a guy in camp who resold them to the ppl spreading the lies. I have pay pal receipt proof and his texts…. He also gifted me a ticket and sold it also I have proof. I had no ticket so I couldn’t arrive until wed night after finding and buying a ticket
about an hour ago · Edited · Like
Moon Shine: How the hell could 25-75 bucks be enough money to pay for someone’s food, water and shelter lol I told all bring own food and water and said we cook food daily when and if we want too but do not rely on us. All this stuff is in posts from months ago on our group page. I bought 2 enclosed canopies via amazon and they were delivered to my so called friends house along with countless other shade materials and supplies and I was told they didn’t arrive . Those canopies were for shelter for 20 or more ppl . So when those were stolen I went and bought tents for the people who were to sleep in the canopies and those tents went unused. I made 3 trips to Reno and back trying to replenish stolen supplies and spent way over any amount of camp donations. I am a victim and some of the people are victims and now some want me to give them donations back and that’s what I was doing until all this….. Now I’m seeking legal actions
about an hour ago · Like
Moon Shine: How can one person be to blame for that pile of moop? What part of radical self reliance and inclusion does not bringing own food, water and shelter play? Yes I offered to bring tents for about 10 ppl and I did. We had a 30ft Uhaul truck to use for shelter after the 10×30 enclosed canopies disappeared but my so called friend chose to sleep in it as his own tent and tell people that I didn’t provide them shelter and to go get fucked. Why didn’t these ppl get to sleep in in the Uhaul on mattresses ? Where’s the 2 canopies? Those are the real questions to be answered! Also myself and friends cooked all kinds of food and shared drinks etcetc
about an hour ago · Like
Moon Shine: The 30 French ppl all pissed off left 100 bags of garbage and junk and a note saying they did it and I guess surrounding ppl piled on top of it after we left with one load of garbage bags. I paid some people to haul bags out others volunteered and I was told the Uhaul was taking the rest out
about an hour ago · Like
Report comment
This was my first year, but I was lucky to be married to a veteran who taught me the right way to do things.
As for Moon Shine; if you sent him money for services or goods that he failed to deliver, that is wire fraud. If you had this happen, and can show evidence, please consider contacting the FBI. The Las Vegas office would be your best bet. Those of you who live outside the United States can contact the US Embassy in your country; there is usually a FBI agent assigned to deal with such matters.
How the Org deals with this mess, and the general issue of turnkey camps is another issue. But the multiple allegations of fraud need to be dealt with through the justice system.
Report comment
You can’t shift the blame of this on a single person no matter how bad he failed his customers.
People who fly in or take mass transit to the play still have to remove their own MOOP. I counted at least 12 MOOPED bikes from the door of my tent on Monday. Those bikes got there somehow but couldn’t get off the Playa?
Report comment
:(
Report comment
PnP will never go away. Carnavasicle is “owned” by a profiteering BMORG board member.
PROFITS BEFORE PRINCIPALS
Maybe the Green Man needs to come back.
Report comment
I’m almost embarrassed to say that me and my friends knew Johnny Nutter aka Moonshine, and that we camped with his gypsies back in 2012. I know exactly how this happened, because the same thing happened in 2012, moonshine made no plan whatsoever to dispose of the trash. Back in 2012, My friends and I were the only one’s with a truck, and thus tasked on the last day of removing the trash for the entire camp. Back then it was about 50 people and there were over 25 large black bags of trash that we hauled off. There was no plan, moonshine just threw the responsibly on us the last day. That year we made a lot of friends in the gypsy camp, but we lost one too, Johnny. We knew Johnny from Maui where we live, and 2/3 of us were virgins following the pied piper to burning man. Good thing we didn’t count on him too much, and we learned a lesson never to camp with him again.
Last year he threatened physical violence against me and my friend on separate occasions over two bikes he left in our storage unit. I tried to make piece with him this year, but at another festival on Maui they gypsies left a large bamboo structure standing, and had no plans to take it down forcing festival volunteers to pick up the slack.
The nice way to say it is misappropriation, but when moonshine organized the gypsies back in 2012 he used camp funds for personal benefit. Not only that he admitted to it in his Facebook group when i called him out, but no one seemed to care, and many people camped with him again next year (2013).
I saw that they were on the schedule of events this year, and hosted members from 13 countries. I never made it over there this year, but I had hoped he’d aligned himself with someone responsible, but it seems his negligence has finally caught up with him. Glad we cut ties when we did, and I feel bad for anyone who has been misguided by him. I met a lot of great people back in gypsy camp in 2012; I only hope they’re all okay.
Report comment
I really don’t understand how all the stuff could go on the playa and how there was not enough room to take it back. Espacially if there where 30 people from london with RVs. Why didn’t e.g. any RV take one or two of the trashbags with them?
I think this is a prime example that big camps with a lot of virgins never will work since there is never enough guidance for them.
Report comment
“You can’t shift the blame of this on a single person no matter how bad he failed his customers.”
This is Burning Man. There shouldn’t be any customers.
Report comment
Several years ago, when I as broke as it gets and still residing in Europe, the above many times mentioned Moonshine contacted me out of the blue with a proposal to join his camp. The conversation lasted for a few months as I was desperate to get to the dessert at any cost, which in his scenario ranged from $50 to $1000. It all sounded extremely scetchy, disorganized, rapid thoughts, delusional banter, thoughts of grandiosity, etc… Eventually I ended the conversation and was lucky enough to get all the help I need from other burners and Org itself. I forgot all about this story until now.
As much as I now feel the urge to attack Moonshine telling him how much of a disgrace to the human kind he is, I know it will give no results nor affect him in any emotional way. Although not medical fact, this person clearly shows all the signs of Histrionic personality disorder; no matter what you say he will stay in his magic la-la land, where he is the king, and the world is at his feet…
I wish Org entitled him as persona non-grata, but that goes against the principal of radical inclusion. But then again, where do we draw the line? When does radical self-expression become unacceptable? What are the defining factors? Harm to others?
Report comment
What’s the take-a-way….
This goes down to awareness on the challenges facing attendees that travel long distances and/or are new. They are susceptible to getting involved in poorly planned camps and/if they do; they are likely to not have been acculturated to the responsibilities that are expected of them. They may not have the skills on how to handle the environment. Hell, they might not have food/shelter.
Generally, most camps do a fine job of assimilating new and distant blood. We were all new once; and I’ve been the distant traveler at 4 burns this summer. But when you get large numbers of newbies/travelers in one camp; regardless if its $25k a head or DIY; you end up with this shitshow.
These guys had 150+, most of them new and/or international. Unless there is a top notch leadership team, this was doomed. What’s the best way to prevent this again?
Report comment
Thank you to The Hun, Ella Jane, and Dave for your support! The most inspiring part of this experience was the way everyone banded together to make due with what we had and build what we could.
I am glad the moop is was left there because it will lead to the story coming out so we can put a stop to this evil. I was planning to report and expose him, but now he has exposed himself!!
I believe the people who showed up with nothing were meant to experience the burn way outside of their comfort zone in order to learn some valuable playa lessons, including how to open up to receive and how to ask for help (a form of self-reliance), as well as to be radically self reliant for next year in getting their basic needs met.
I also transformed as I stepped up into a leadership role in the camp in the midst of chaos and havoc, which taught me that I am capable of leadership and of standing up for others being mistreated.
I apologize to Dpw Resto for the Moop madness from this camp and thank you all for your phenomenal service to Black Rock.
Shout out to D.A.!!
Sincerely Yours,
Journey aka Moopsie Daisy
Report comment
Simple solution.
PnP camps = vending.
No Vending.
Goodbye to jerks like this.
Report comment
60+ thousand people and one or two dodgy camps – thats not bad eh? Having said that I do wish that instead of expansion that the org would double down on education and empowerment about the basics like moop, sustainability, etc.
Report comment
There is a lesson here somewhere…it is a microcosm of our western society, no? Capitalism has found a way to poison this experience
Report comment
Look. I’ve come and gone from the BM in my day. I got done with it back in ’03 when I felt that it was growing too large, and that the organizers were too into ticket sales to put a limit on attendance that would be appropriate for the lack of infrastructure. But you can’t really be surprised that 50,000 people would assemble for a week in the desert and not leave waste behind. Give me a break. Don’t hold the fucking thing there! Hold it on a river, where people can throw their trash in a moving stream of water that goes toward lake OCEAN, and you can pretend that humans are clean animals. Anyway, I loved my time at the ole BRC, and I am done. It is done. The grandiose plans of survival of the fittest and DIY till I die just don’t hold up for the event anymore. Everyone needs to quit pretending and let what is, be. It’s more BM now, than BM.
Report comment
Importing non-self reliant and utterly unprepared people (a number of which are there only to sight see), for monetary gain, into a “radical self reliance” event in a lethal desert location is just plain wrong. Allowing, sanctioning, and placing such camps move the event towards the Disneyland spectacle direction. Burning Man needs to emphasize that radical self reliance, and participation are essential to the creativity that has made Burning Man what it is. How were the foreign nationals in this Gypsy camp ever going to participate in the event, how could they contribute? This could be said for the K-street safari customers as well. We need participants, not tourists!
Report comment
We start at least 6 months in advance planning camp. We have a “Green Czar” who has a team of people shifted out to work each day. The recycling is sorted, the compost, the burnables burned. Every one of our 130+ camp members is reminded each day at camp meeting, just after dinner, that they are to ABM (Always Be Mooping) and that each person is responsible to show up for their strike shift and to take as many bags of camp trash, along with their personal trash, with them. And, of course, while everyone does their part, there are experienced veterans who are left behind to supervise the hailed and vaunted B.E (Bitter Ender) crew. This is what keeps us and others, year after year, in the green.
Although I agree that there are personal responsibilities that can not be 100% transferred to leadership, we understand that it is important, as leaders, to make sure that our campers (lots of virgins this year) understand what the camp infrastructure and dues does and does NOT cover. Otherwise, assumptions can be dangerous.
Anyone who assumes the responsibility for leading a camp that welcomes noobs, while they should not have to DO all the work, should take responsibility for making sure, firsthand, that the work is being done.
These folks were not led, inspired, taught to fish or given, it seems, fishing rods. Take that same exact group of people and put them in our camp. And they would have worked hard, LNTd, and had a great time doing it. We love making up foolish “chain gang” songs to sing as we moop shoulder to shoulder. We love swearing at the sequins and feathers and berating those who left them as if they were still there. We have contests for the most interesting and most voluminous moop bags. We fantasize about what might happen if we took the various pills we find just before throwing them away. Folks should take personal responsibility, I agree… but leadership.. real, inspiring, empowering leadership is what can really help bring folks in to the ethos of this city. Then they get it. And when they get it, they got it.. and we’re good.
Report comment
While I am philosophically opposed to P&P camps, the above gives me pause. Perhaps those kind of camps should provide an outline of their plan to integrate their attendees to the burner ethos and be put through a vetting process much like DMV does for mutant vehicles?
Report comment
RADICAL SELF RELIANCE!! This was my first, and not last year, on the playa. I did my research, I made sure to reduce my waste in the default world BEFORE I left for BRC. I have been watching this thread and I am disappointed. I didn’t have to arrive by plane, but a few of my camp mates did (sk8kamp muthafuckas!!) and those international camp mates may not have been able to pack MOOP in their carry-ons, but they certainly did their part. I had a great time with my burn veteran partner at some large PNP camps, we encouraged/rallied/bullied fellow burners to MOOP up and out while partying and my experience was life changing. One person did not create a 4 foot MOOP pile, one person did not leave it for DPW (ya’ll are simply AMAZING) and one person didn’t clean it up. My recent cherry pop sees it this way: internationals…. RADICAL SELF RELIANCE. Humans: STOP BEING SLOBS! (playa&default) ***BURNERS: Thank you for helping me carry out these principles in my everyday affairs more so than any self help group. And to Mr. Moonshine…..I am really glad that I don’t know you. Please keep Hawaii clean and stay the fuck out of Santa Cruz. xoxo P.S. MOOP isn’t just at BRC, look around, pick it up and don’t give your money to strange strangers.
Report comment
Hmmm…yeah I know Johnny Moonshine from Hippy Gypsy Flower Power. I will just say this. This is perhaps one of the best uses of Scarlet Letter Justice that I have ever witnessed. Unfortunately, NOW it opens up potential to conceal the crime by dropping it elsewhere, or even worse to commit blackmail by some petty “rival” camp. Should have kept this under wraps BORG…
Report comment
In the weeks leading up to my first burn, I had a feeling that Moonshine wasn’t very organized. With radical self reliance in mind, trying to do the best thing, I brought in all of my own supplies plus an extra tent. Luckily I was able to loan out the tent to a Swedish couple who were stuck with nothing after paying dues and expecting a place to sleep. On Monday morning, I saw a pile of trash developing right by the English group’s tipi. I saw a couple of girls dropping loads of rubbish into the pile and I asked if they planned on leaving it there. They gave me a snooty reply about being ripped off by Moonshine. There was a note left on the pile that read something along the lines of “our group has paid $1600+ and got nothing, here’s $1200 worth of garbage here, isn’t karma a bitch?”
I was pissed. I found Moonshine, asked about the plan for the rubbish, and realized pretty soon that there was no real plan. We were able to fit eight big garbage bags from the pile into our uhaul, plus two abandoned bikes (which was about a third of the garbage pile at the time). We spread the word around camp about the pile asking for help, and few volunteered to haul out some extra bags. My friends and I left with a full load on Monday around 2pm. I thought everyone left would also pitch in to help haul out the pile. I thought we were all on the same page.
I’m disappointed we couldn’t do more. That I didn’t do more. That the small pile turned into something much more massive after I saw it last. I live in a community where we follow the burner ethos everyday, and I’m sad that our camp mates didn’t seem to get what Burning Man is all about. I’m embarrassed to have been a part of a camp that had the man power (300+ campers!) but not the hauling power or willingness to do something. What the fuck. After having an unbelievably wonderful experience that gave me hope for the power of community with like-minded goals… how can we prevent this from happening?
Report comment
hearing about stuff like this makes me feel bad. As one of the leaders of the Champagne Lounge I feel like it’s important to clean your shit up no matter how much it is, it all came out right. (My camp mates who have experienced my yelling during the MOOP sweep can attest to how serious I take it)
I wish I had heard about this while on playa, I could have taken some of that trash for them. I love Burning Man, and I don’t like DPW getting stuck dealing with trash. Wish there was a way for camps to let other camps about issues like this.
Thanks Resto Team! You’re amazing!
Report comment
Just trying to figure out why Zack is even here if he was so done with BM 11 years ago. Seriously, dude, if you don’t care any more, why are you freaking here?
Report comment
To all Fellow Burners, BM DPW, BMORG, Newbies, Oldies and Future Burners:
I was a member of gypsy camp and obviously very embarrassed to say so. I’m so sorry it went down as it did and Im so sorry for the pile of trash/grey water/etc. Obviously the principles were not adheared to and many things fell through the cracks. Radical self reliance does not allow us to blame any one person for this mess. We can point fingers and call names till next year if we want, but it still doesnt fix this mess. Whether you left with many bags of trash or no bags of trash, no one truly knows except you and WE as a group are still to blame for this mess. Clearly we cant do anything about it now, the only thing we can do is commit to being better. Karma is a bitch and moop is a bigger bitch! As for me, I know i can commit to mooping more and bitching less and also volunteering my time next year (and probably many years) to stay after the burn and help moop and moop and moop! Life isnt over. The Playa isnt going away. Lets take the Big BIG pile of lessons we’ve learned this year and make the Playa better next year!
Report comment
“Reality Chick Says:
And who pays an additional fee to be part of a theme camp? Is this even a thing? Burning Man tickets are already sky-high expensive, along with the cost of food, camping supplies and other necessities. If you’re paying $100+ dollars to reside in a group of strangers, you’re setting yourself up for this type of thing. I’d never pay to stay with a theme camp when I could just set up my own tent/RV for free.
Radical SELF-reliance, people.”
Sounds like you’ve never camped in a theme camp before. In our camp we each pitch in a few hundred dollars to pay to transport our shade structure and water down there. There’s absolutely nothing wrong with that. Don’t try and conflate it with plug and play camps just because you’d prefer to camp by yourself in an RV.
Report comment
This is a PSA- all early arrival passes include the attendees entire legal name and a unique bar code. They are not transferable. If anyone tries to offer you an early arrival pass that doesn’t have your name on it do not take it! It isn’t valid!
Report comment
My name is Leo “Leobard” Sauermann and I am one of the regional contacts for Burning Man in Austria.
If you are an international Virgin Burner looking for a camp, I highly advise not to trust facebook or mailinglists alone but to ask other burners about their experiences before joining a camp. Ask people who have been in the camp last year, ask friends where they plan to camp. Ask your US friends.
If you have no burner friends whatsoever to ask — no problem — contact your Regional Contact. Here are their email adresses:
http://regionals.burningman.com/regionals/
If you dont have one listed for your country, contact one from a neighbouring country or any country you like.
Usually, us from the Regional Network are old time burners with many many other Burner friends and we can connect you to lovely burners to burn with, we may know a camp from your town or a camp that may suit your character and desires. Maybe you even like the camp I am going to :-)
But alas, my task is to no avail, no international virgin with absolutely no burner friends will ever read this what I wrote. Futile!
Report comment
Thanks for this post. As part of the team dealing with those red Xs I have been curious about that particular pile, and now see why it was such an important one. I know, I’m a romantic, but I do hope the spotlight on this prevents any more of these disasters. Social shame is a wonderful tool… Shouts out to the Resto crew! Doin it right!
Report comment
Where’s the like button?
Report comment
I feel very sorry for the ripped-off virgins, but coming in from far away is not an excuse for being unprepared. We. flew in straight from Europe while still wrapping up a huge project and still managed to rent a car and pick up all the supplies we needed on the way to Burning Man. In the end, we had to take unused stuff back out as we bonded with our neighbours and didn’t e.g. need to set up the shade structure we brought – but abandoning it on Playa? Nope, took that back out with us and gifted it to a Burner friend who will hopefully put it to use next year.
So yeah, being a virgin and from far away makes things a bit harder – or more interesting if you choose to see it that way – but does not exempt you from radical self reliance. We’d been dreaming of coming to Burning Man for over a decade before having both the time and the financial means, came fully prepared and left deeply satisfied – and no red x’s anywhere close to our camp. Next time, we’d lovd to participate in an organised camp, but for this first experience, as stressful as picking up everything on the go was, I was very proud when we had made it in and everything began working out, and I feel like we learned a good lesson by doing things like this for our first (but definitely not last) burn.
Report comment
Reality Chick, let us not besmirch real Gypsies here please. You’re hatred is welcome elsewhere, I’m sure.
Report comment
Poly Paradise, the camp I stay with, was 206 people this year and the camp fees were $150 The differences between ours and the disaster above were that our camp daddy actually does things and not in it for the profit, we have several lieutenants to take some of the burden off of his shoulders (kitchen manager, ice runner, trash czar, to name a few), and like BM in general, 60% are burner veterans and an effort is made to inoculate the virgins with the burner ethos and integrate them into the camp.
One big difference is that while we supply a lot:
http://polyparadise.azcompuguy.com/what-we-provide.htm
…we don’t supply a place to sleep, the water, the food for your one committed meal, or entertainment in the camp (no DJ booth for example).
Report comment
This story exemplifies many of the reasons why I stick with regionals. Once you have that many people + popularity = money making opportunity with a potential for abuse.
Its human nature!
Don’t know if the org has any plans or capability to control this situation. Camp fees are necessary in some circumstances – I couldn’t make it out to the Playa without a significant financial investment and I would need to have a paid association to maintain my health and basic comfort needs. Luckily there are resources for me locally and I don’t need tablecloths and super models to have a good time.
Policing/regulation of theme camps is an expensive proposition in terms of time and resources, but it sounds like the event has grown to the point it is necessary.
However, someone has to shoulder the costs of policing/regulation Instead of raising ticket prices, perhaps some of these camps need to put up a security deposit based on camp size/attendees/potential impact? I suspect that you’d see a lot fewer Jonny Moon Shine stories if theme camps had to be responsible financially up front AND repeat offenders weren’t welcome back. These are rules that EVERYONE would have to play by, including board members.
So if the camp for the 1% left a mess, they’d forfeit their deposit and privilege for future attendance. I doubt Dr Tananbaum picks up his own trash at home, but how many of you think he should be doing it on the Playa?
Just for the fun of it I calculated the cost of a burn at Black Rock vs. the average cost of the 4 regionals I attend. These costs include tickets, transportation of myself and stuff, supplies purchased for the event, camp fees and pet sitting.
Average Regional Attendance Cost:
384.00
Estimated Black Rock Attendance Cost:
1763.00
So, attend 4 events a year for a total cost of 1536.00, or one at 1763.00?
(please don’t come to my events, Dr.Tananbaum!)
Report comment
I have some good french friends camping in this camp this year.
They were trying their best to fight against all this luck of organization…
But when you discover on your way to the playa everything… How can you deal for 200 persons?
2 solutions =
-> leave the camp and find another camp
-> or try to do your best for helping people stuck in this camp
My french friends chose the second option. I think we can’t blame them to trying as more as they could to be helpful and give their hands.
– A friend personally rented a truck for bringing some structures and kitchen to set a camp for 200 persons
– Around 15 persons have to find a way to set up the camp while they finally discovered they have no EAP… So they have to quickly set up on sunday, before everybody came.
“Find your EAP, under a stone at the entrance” was the answer from the leader, a certain Moon Shine
=> What a bad bad joke… Can you believe that a burner can say that?
They were so many virgins in this camp and lots of foreigner, attracted to this camp because the leader promised to provide a tent, bike, water (…) for them. It was all included in the camp fees… But never delivered. Some persons has not been awared before Burning Man, and discovered it once on the playa.
– My friends were trying to figure out what they have and how they could deal for everyone. They share their food and water.
=>But days after days, new persons were arriving asking for their tent…
It’s only what I know and have seen… I hope some members will describe you in details their own experience.
I truly trust in Burning Man’s subjectivity. And I hope you will find a fair answer for all this mess done.
Report comment
Early entry passes do not necessarily have names. Camps get a file that has all of them in it. They definitely have unique codes, but they do NOT have to be tied to your name.
Report comment
Radical Chick: the Roma people (often know as gypsies although that term can be considered derogatory) are an ethnic minority in Europe who have been persecuted and descriminated against for centuries. Please take a moment to educate yourself before using such racist language because your other points seem quite valid.
Report comment
Oops I mean Reality Chick not Radical Chick, sorry
Report comment
I’ve camped with many virgin Brits and Frogs and they all kept their shit together and were self-reliant. Jesus, just rent an economy car and pack it with water and beef jerky and canned soup and you’ll be fine. It’s not that hard. It only gets hard when you think paying someone $250 is actually throwing enough money at the situation to make it good.
Lessons learned. Stop blaming Moonshine or anyone else for your foolishness. Just don’t make the same mistake next year. If anything, Burning Man is about learning lessons. Blaming someone else robs you of those lessons because it makes you the victim, and in this society you can’t blame victim. So the victim never does anything wrong. Well, Gypsy Flower Power campers – you did it wrong. Own it.
Report comment
For virgins arrive overseas, and you don’t have a camp, here’s a recipe for survival for 1 or 2 people:
Rent a Lincoln Towncar – sleep in the front seat, forget about a tent. Tents just get full of dust. A reclined Towncar front seat is better than any bed on the playa. The engine is quiet, so you can turn on the AC in the morning to get a few extra hours of sleep. Make sure you have a full tank of gas. Block out the windows with tin foil. Park it back-facing to the rising sun, the front seat will stay cooler longer in the AM. Park it perpendicular to a panel van or RV – as the owner of the vehicle it it’s okay, they’ll always say yes if you’re polite. This will provide shade in the afternoon when you need it most.
The trunk of a Towncar is secure and huge. You can load it full of more than everything you’ll need for the week. Get twice as much booze as you think you’ll drink because you’ll be sharing.
Get a couple chairs and a throwaway rug from wherever and now you have your camp. Get something for a table – even a box is fine if you can secure it and make it waterproof.
Piss in empty plastic bottles (so you don’t have to get up in the middle of the night) and empty them in the portapotties when you take a shit. Carry them in a bag to the portapotties so you don’t look like an insane person. Label the piss bottles so you don’t drink them.
Your gray water system should not be a pond, but a 2 or 3 large jugs with a funnel that will catch the water from your 2 gallon jugs. Nice for brushing your teeth and washing your hands and for a sponge bath.
Forget about the bike thing. Bikes are a headache. You can walk everywhere and it opens you up to more experiences. Bikes just get you someplace faster, and there’s no hurry anyway.
Report comment
Dragon’s Daughter said, “This is a PSA- all early arrival passes include the attendees entire legal name and a unique bar code. They are not transferable. If anyone tries to offer you an early arrival pass that doesn’t have your name on it do not take it! It isn’t valid!”
Yes, they have a unique bar code that once scanned at Gate makes the EA not valid because it’s been used. But they do not have your full name on them. This year, with Ticketfly, the EAP contained the name of the person who “ordered” the EAP. If it was a Theme Camp, the name on ALL the EAP would be the TC’s main contact who filled out a questionnaire. Staff EAP have the manager’s name on them, Art Support have the artist’s name on them, etc. etc. In other words, the name on the EAP isn’t YOUR name unless you filled out a questionnaire. The person that received the group of EAP the distributes via email or print copy the EAP to each individual working on the project.
Burning Man doesn’t ask for each individual because too often, someone drops out and the EAP needs to be given to someone else. Keeping track and updating that many EAP transfers along with ticket transfers would be a nightmare.
Report comment
Two words: Plug & Play.
Report comment
I’ve held leadership in past years for a large camp, with lots of supplies, a kitchen, showers, water, and people flying in from all over the world. The level of trust people will put in a camp is amazing, and most camps like ours live up to their promises. We get lots of virgins, and foreigners and wealthy people, because the Playa is daunting and some people just wouldn’t be able to fathom going to Burning Man without someone holding their hand the first time out.
We’ve always MOOPed well, and had mixed experiences cleaning up after people who felt entitled to leave trash everywhere. We’ve learned to acclimate people to the culture well before they hit the playa, and it’s a lot of work, but worth it in the end because we make new lifelong friends who are eager to help out next year.
This is not about Plug and Play (or Pay to Play) camps, this is not about vending, this is not about increased ticket sales. It’s about fraud and moop. Those other things enable con artists to work their dark magic on unsuspecting tourists, which is unfortunate, and while steps can be taken to limit this, con artists can always find victims by bending and breaking the rules in the shadows. Shining light on the places they lurk is one possible solution… publishing this map is one way of doing that. Having this conversation is another. Setting up a Yelp! For theme camps and individual burners, if anyone cared to, might be another way, though that seems like a big can of worms to open.
Unfortunately, there will always be gullible people who haven’t heard a thing about the 10 principles who can be duped into this sort of situation. These are not people who read JRS and peruse the website and know how to confirm tickets at will call… these are not people who would be likely to find and use our theoretical Burner Yelp! We who have been doing all this for years forget sometimes what it’s like to not know all about everything and how it all works. It sounds like there were some veterans involved, and that they did their best in a crappy situation, but at the base of all this is promises made, money sent, and promises broken. There’s no feasible way in my mind to prevent people from pooling their money to put on camps, and no one right way to do it, either. We have to trust the people we give our money to, and some people make mistakes in the process. Live and learn, and pray that everyone goes home safe and sound.
Regarding the MOOP situation, it’s a good measure of how much a camp and its leaders care about the culture, the playa, and each other. Once a pile of garbage starts, it grows. That a situation like that could even happen means that several failures took place, in succession: a failure to vet campmates, a failure of planning, a failure of execution, a failure of culture (this could only happen if a critical mass of people don’t care the way some of us choose to), and above all, a failure of leadership. Leaders could (and perhaps should) be held personally liable for the state of their portion of the playa. That’s the attitude I’ve always taken, and it’s inspired others to stay with me until Wednesday getting every last sequin. Regardless of whether I’m mayor, I’m considered a leader for making sure things get done right.
It’s not a question in my mind of whether this kind of thing will happen ever again, (though hopefully this is a learning moment and it won’t happen again on this scale), but how to best deal with violations like this, how to process the stories that come from campmates and witnesses, how to grow as a community and a culture to minimize the possibility and scope of these transgressions, and how to grow individually in response to the pain and anger we feel when we see a huge pile of trash left for DPW to haul out.
Regarding the expansion of the event, while I consider it a separate issue, it is related and I’d like to address it here. As the event has grown, more and more vets have bailed permanently. As the event has grown, a bigger and bigger percentage of attendees are first and second time burners. Unfortunate incidents of this nature have happened for years, and to my mind the scale of the MOOP mess in this camp simply matches the increased scale of the event. Without a concerted effort from the top down to cultivate our culture and constantly improve it, it will continue to dilute and we’ll continue to lose the people who have made our culture special, safe, and fun.
I’m grateful for this conversation, and for all of you!
Love you all!!!
Matheo Golden Dragon
Report comment
Hello all, I am extremely embarrassed and sorry that this happened. I was a member of this camp in 2013 and 2014. I came in with what I needed, and hauled it all out, and that of the folks that were ride sharing with me. My fault, in addition to the many listed above, is that I watched the facebook posts and did nothing – I trusted and assumed wrongly that a burner would not be a scammer. But in the end, this was a city of 70,000, and like any city, there will be bad people, naïve people, and problems. While this one really really sucks, lets hope when the map comes out that this will be an exception, and we can celebrate the good people and great experience of burning man. And to be even more vigilant in the future. I saw this disorganization, the wild claims that could not be true, photos placed by moonshine that were obviously reproduced from other websites. I should have called him on this. I also was oblivious to the magnitude of the problem, trusting that burners provide for themselves. On the other side, though, the BM website, the many blogs, etc., make it clear that people need to bring what they need. I have no problems with plug and play concepts, but it could not be clearer that at BM, numerous back-up plans are needed. My suggestions is that the Org make this a case study that goes on the home page of the website. There are so many things to be learned about self-reliance, trust, the stories of the people who were trying to solve this, those that abandoned this, and how the folks worked together in an extremely unfortunate situation. I don’t think the Org has the power or ability to make 100% compliance for all camps and attendees. But, I would assume that camp applications require a plan for organization and moop, or I hope so. My other suggestion is that the plan of every camp get posted on the website so that campers can see what their leadership promised. At this point there is nothing I can do to fix history, but will work harder for the future. Also, this is not about money, but it does take money to produce BM and clean up. I will look for ways to donate to the folks that do the clean-up, but that work is an unbelievable love for Burning Man.
Report comment
There’s a group of dedicated volunteers to clean up after us. They methodically document and comb the ground, picking up all the garbage we left behind, so we can go to Burning Man next year.
Places get messy when so many people gather somewhere. It doesn’t have to, but for whatever reason it does. Many thanks to Playa Restoration’s efforts. It’ll be worse next year… gonna need more volunteers.
“Someone else is gonna come and clean it up
Born and raised for the job
Someone always does”
~A Wolf at The Door
Report comment
This is about Burning Man culture and inculcating the 10 principles.
According to the latest census, over 60% of those attending 2014 were either virgins (40%) or had been there just one year (20%).
Ticket demand now outstrips supply.. and many veteran burners were unable to get tickets this year.
Given the importance of strengthening and passing on the culture..why not set aside 80% of tickets for veteran burners (ie people that have an existing burner profile), and 20% for virgins. This way the Burning Man organization can make it easier for veteran (who pass on th culture) to obtain tickets. With a smaller percentage of virgins…the BM culture is less likely to get distorted and shat on as with this pile of Moop and all the red X’s.
Report comment
I am with you Gina.
BMORG needs to be mindful of the dilution of the culture by tilting the attendees too far towards virgins. Veterans not only pass on the culture, they incarnate it too.
When demand exceeded supply, radical inclusion took a big hit.
Report comment
Perhaps if every camp offered to incorporate a few people from overseas and/or newbies so they could be properly acculturated and given guidance, then they won’t fall prey to situations like this. I will be talking to my camp about it – and we could certainly bring a couple of bikes if they can stop and buy a tent and some food/water…
Report comment
I am one of the unofficial leads of a regional Texas camp. I went to TTITD a long time ago, when it was still small, and shit was groovy.
If my campmates did this at a regional, I would literally shoot all of them dead. Or at least beat them until even their mother couldn’t recognize them. This is the exact opposite of acceptable. We always leave NO TRACE, no matter what. One regional, our trash truck left early due to an unforseen circumstance. Fuck it, we piled trash into our cars and dealt with the smell until we could find a good dumpster.
Every time I look at the pics in this post, I am utterly enraged. Jonny Moonshine can eat a barrel of elephant cocks. Everyone in this camp should feel fucking ashamed and worthless. Plug and play camping leads to this kind of nonsense, and should be banned from the burn. I don’t care if he fucked you over on ticket price and accommodations – there is NO EXCUSE for leaving a 4 foot pile of garbage at a burn. None. I hope none of these cocksuckers ever return to any burn. They don’t deserve to be welcomed back. They should all be banned and shamed.
Report comment
I’m happy to report that our camp near 3:45 and J was left moop free, two red dots left by neighbors on the block according to the map, but on the whole my experience was that our neighborhood was prepared, kind and sweet with helping eachother out. Even the virgins I met were well prepared and versed on the principles. As a burner that has been attending off and on for 19 years now, I’ve seen a lot of changes on the playa, but the spirit of what the event is all about, building a radical community is still strong and was re-affirmed by the majority of folks that I met this year. I agree that it is the civic duty of anyone who has attended more than once to do their part to pass on the culture to virgins, educating in the nicest way possible and spreading kindness and love on the playa, to me more than music and art and fashion, that is what BM is all about. I collected moop everywhere I went putting it in the saddle bags on bike all week whenever I saw it, and would never once complain about it. Radical inclusion means giving the gift of burner culture by leading as an example. I hope those whose first year experience was moopy and tainted by con artists or masked by careless wealth and selfishness of some irresponsible plug and play atmospheres, still were able to get initiated into the true spirit of the event through conscious playa magic and will return to the playa to create, share, and participate in the future. Yes, even picking up moop is part of participating, and if you didn’t get the memo, don’t come back unless you are ready to receive this gift. For all the many good burners out there if you value our culture then do your part to pass it down.
Report comment
Unless Moonshine speaks with an accent he’s not unique. Some nice young east coast virgins at my bar told me about their camp organizer (“British or maybe South African”) failing to furnish paid for supplies (water and coolers I think) while leaving them with other peoples’ bags of trash, both with lots of the usual evasive self-serving BS. We concluded that a mid to large camp needs a high degree of either organization or trust, if you don’t have either you’re better off on your own.
It’s on the Placement team now if these clowns get to do a village again next year. And not trusting strangers to set up your camp has to become part of the standard rigmarole. If BMOrg won’t do it (because they want to maximize tourism, or whatever) then it’s up to the community. At the very least don’t put yourself in the hands of someone who doesn’t even use punctuation.
Report comment
This is disgusting and upsetting… People /camps like this should not be allowed early entry or even tickets to the next year. There are far to many participants who follow and live by the BM principals who don’t even get tickets. It’s unreasonable to allow people like this to continue to take limited “spots ” . The whole camp is responsible … We had members of our camp who leave moop.., rubbish, even furniture and the last people to leave picked it up … I say if u can’t respect it u can’t come … All the documented members of that camp should be black listed for 2years minimum … Peace love joy
Report comment
This is still surprising in that BMORG needs to do more to educate virgins.
So yes BMORG or whoever does these things should ban the guy from the event for life, and all the defrauded camp members should sue him, it’s easy enough in small claims courts, will make his life harder. A for life ban from the venue should be possible to implement. Even if he managed to sneak in, he would probably not be able to organize any sort of camp publicly.
But that said, Burning Man is about radical self reliance. So there is no excuse for a bunch of sparkle ponys showing up and throwing their trash everywhere.
There should be a guide-line for camps that says they’re not to take over trash removal. Everyone needs to be responsible for their own trash.
And on BMORG there should be a small blurb for people coming from overseas and radical self reliance. I’ve done this the last 5 years and it’s easy:
– You’re responsible for your own shit (Good lord read the principles)
– Rent a car at the airport
– On your way to the event stop over in Reno and go to these places: Wal Mart, Trader Joe’s, CVS pharmacy.
– Purchase the following items (suggestions): List of playa foods such as – TJ indian quick meals (fantastic and you can just eat them cold and out of the bag), cheese, crackers, granola bars, cereal and milk, bagels, cream cheese. Some beer and drinks for sharing. That’s literally all I had and all I need for a week in the desert.
– Bring or buy for cheap: Sleeping bag, tent, airbed, etc. People coming from overseas are not aware that all this stuff is cheap as chips in the USA. $10 – $30 for each of these items. It’s nothing. Even if you did end up having to get rid of it at the end, it’s cheap!
– At the end pack your trash in the trash bags you bought, dump it in the hotel dumpster where you’re staying that last night in Reno, get the car cleaned before returning ($60 for sparkly clean). And Done.
You don’t need a camp to take care of you. As soon as you step out of your tent, you’ll make tons of new friends so you don’t need a camp for that either.
It’s very easy if you know how. The problem is most overseas burners in particular don’t know about the USA, and they don’t know how to do it, and they think it’s super difficult. In fact if you’re sitting in France and booking your flight, doing the few things I mentioned above will seem so hard as to be impossible.
Report comment
The comments on this post are an interesting read. They seem to fall into three categories of roughly equal size:
• Camp members explaining how the whole thing fell apart through the malice or incompetence of the camp leader and the lack of a leadership theme. (And a minor chorus of “Oh yeah, that guy did that last year too.”)
• Insistence that this guy should be banned from Burning Man (does Gate share the TSA’s no-fly list?) or sued for wire fraud.[1]
• Discussion of how Plug & Play camps are ruining Burning Man.
I kept reading because of the first category (a natural human reaction to juicy drama). Yet I found the third category particularly interesting.
The big buzz about Plug & Play camps this year was about how they were commodifying the Burning Man experience by selling a package deal to rich people for $20,000. How they were undercutting radical self-reliance by providing pre-stocked RVs, paid staff, and private art cars. How they were flaunting radical inclusion and immediacy by lining the street with RVs and giving the stink eye to anyone who tried to check out the camp.
And with that bogeyman stirred up in the off season, Burners are ready to apply the PnP label not just to private billionaire playgrounds but also a poorly organized camp run by a guy who says he’ll bring a tent and a bike for you for $75[2] and gave some folks the impression that they didn’t need to bring food or take home trash. They’ve established a camp category they don’t like (Plug and Play camps) and so the instinct is to label this new camp with the same category to make the not-liking easier.
Stereotypes are subtle mental tricksters. Fortunately, Burning Man is a good place to violate assumptions and strip stereotypes naked. It’s possible for this camp to let down the community in a different way than your pet peeve camp does it.
[1] At least Slashdot commenters prefix “You should sue him” with “I am not a lawyer, but…”
[2] I’d want to carefully inspect any tent that costs $50 and is claimed to be suitable for the Playa.
Report comment
Every one of the people associated with this camp are at fault , and in my oppinion should have legal action taken against them. I can only hope that names of these Tourists are handed to the Nevada parks department to issue each and evey one of them the max possible fines.
None of these people should ever be allowed to come back and thats an oppinion shared by many. If your reading this and are part of that camp i hope you take that verry seriously and never come back . cause after this disrespectfull display you’re not welcome here.
Im sorry if you got screwed over by this guy. but youre all just as bad by screwing over the other 69’750 of us . i hope the bmorg presents you to the parks department on a silver platter so you can recive your fines . and even more so i hope your fines turn into arrest warrents if not paid .. if you have the gaul to ever attempt to come back
Report comment
The really sad thing about all of this (and then I’ll stop commenting on this subject), is that the efforts of genuinely hard-working campmates got overshadowed by this mess. As one of the neat-freaks, we squeezed as much as we could get into our little car , which was packed to the gills already (seriously – I had hula hoops around my neck and part of a box in front of my face). We left during the Temple Burn, and dropped our trash bags off at a designated spot for $5 a pop on our 5 1/2 hour trip down the highway back to Reno to catch some Zzzs before taking off back to NYC. By the time I opened up my computer the next morning in Reno and saw the post that the Swiss/French DELIBERATELY left a huge pile of trash behind (I mean, it was BIG), I thought “oh no….” There had to have been at least 75-80 people still at camp when we left, so I just can’t fathom why there was SO MUCH TRASH left behind! I mean, if everyone kept their OWN trash in their tents and then took one or two extra trash bags from the kitchen, I’m sure anything left over would have been easy to cart out with no issues. Especially since there were still several RVs and trucks present. I didn’t sign up to be part of a PnP because I brought my own rations, but yes, I agree there needs to be some sort of limit/permit/fee/application process involved with camps of a certain size. Personally, I’m fine with the total elimination of large camps in general. I’d rather have a more intimate, personal experience where I know my campmates.
Report comment
Lights-Out: Unless I’m missing something, the Nevada Parks Dept. has no presence at Burning Man, and no authority over an event conducted on Federal Land. We had some complete asshole squatters in our camp who pissed off a bunch of the wrong people (Black Rock Rangers, Sheriffs and BLM officers), and it was BLM who wrote them $1000 in tickets for drugs, litter and gray water spillage.
Actually, there is no Nevada Parks Department. The state parks are run by the Nevada Department of Conservation and Natural Resources.
Number-One of the 10 Principles is “Radical Inclusion.” Rather than ban everyone who camped with this clown, how about assuming they are capable of learning and help them become good burners in the future?
Many people, like Lights-Out, are calling for a lifetime ban of everyone in the camp. AFAIK, unless you’re filling out an app for a Mutant Vehicle or an app to be a volunteer, you are never asked for your camp association, so identifying all of the camp members might be nearly impossible. Also, some of the people in this camp have said they moved to different camps when the magnitude of the problems became clear. Exactly how would you come up with a list of people to ban from the event for life?
Beyond that, Larry Harvey absolutely, positively refuses to move to identity-based ticketing, claiming it would get in the way of gifting. Meaning, anyone can get a ticket from a third party and then go through the gate. Sure, Placement should deny this guy reserved space if he tries to sign up as a village in the future, but his camp isn’t even on the Theme Camp list.
Even for people living in the US, taking someone who lives in Hawaii to court won’t be all that easy, and it could be exceptionally difficult for residents from other countries. The reality is that this guy will probably return next year, perhaps without registered theme camp placement. Maybe BLM will make his stay uncomfortable, as they did with our asshole squatters, but probably not.
Report comment
Forgot to add, “, or the like” after “app to be a volunteer.”
Report comment
Doug… Hawaii is a State of the US. There’s no international boundary and law differences to keep him from being pursued and prosecuted between US attendees and him. There’s enough fraud that occurred here to make his life very difficult should he be prosecuted. I strongly encourage those who have lost money to this vile piece of human trash to go after him through the legal system and take him for all he’s worth.
Rest assured, this situation, the camp and the details surrounding it are being discussed at length by volunteers and staff.
Those that camped here appear to have made as much effort as they were able. I’m sure there were many that put whatever they had in them toward trying to improve the trash situation and help one another. I’m also sure (and not surprised or angry) that there were others that left and relocated. Either the emotional load on them or the potential futility of the situation, along with for many the prospect of their entire first burn going to hell just may have been too much. Without the right resources and being a noob, I might run screaming too. Some just fold under pressure. I really can’t blame them too much.
With all the discussions and information that keeps coming forward about the situation from so many places: This has a lot of visibility. Mr. Moonshine is most likely everything that people have reported him to be. A theif, a liar, and repeatedly guilty of these things over the past few years. Searches for information have also labeled him as a regional contact for Burning Man in Hawaii. He’s not going anywhere if he’s this well known. If the organization and the judicial system don’t take any action on him (myself and many others hope they do), I would be unsurprised if any attempt of his to return to the event isn’t met with open hostility, rage and even potential retaliation by the public and community at large.
Report comment
If this camp has been doing this for years, why do they keep getting approved as a theme camp? Is lack of accountability the 11th Principle of Burning Man?
Report comment
I’m a little upset by all the posts I see insisting that the members of the camp didn’t work hard enough at making the camp run in spite of everything (or at least get the MOOP taken care of), and can’t help but feel like the majority of those posts are probably made by people who live within a single day’s drive of the playa.
My ex-wife, daughter, and I have made it out to the burn four times from Toronto, Canada, so I’m pretty sympathetic to how the complexity of the logistics increases with distance. (Ok, so having been the logistics lead for Super Street Fire back in 2012, I’m *really* sympathetic, and would love to tell you some stories about looking up the import codes for fire extinguishers in the harmonized tariff schedule). Now apart from the small cheat of using turnkey bikes, we’ve generally avoided cutting any corners on the self-reliance, LNT, etc. (really, you can’t cut corners on the self-reliance when bringing a kid since you’re also exposing the kid to the risks of failures in any other people you rely on).
Between this, and the sherpa post a while back, I definitely think there needs to be a good solid discussion about turnkey camps and services, but feel it’s vitally important that we pay proper attention to the shades of grey on this topic that might not be quite so visible in California and Nevada.
Report comment
Self reliance is key. Hello BORG!! Instead of parking passes…how about a limited number of RV passes with special permits for elderly, parents, and handicapped. The funds raised to go directly to the artists. This would cut down the population and the visual pollution.
The harder you work the better you become and the more you get out of the event. Sacrifice creates Gratitude. RVs make it too easy to miss the magic. Charge a lot more for less of them. Please.
Thanks
Michelle from A Cavallo
Report comment
I wish there was a way that the whole burner community could have pulled together around a calamity like this… a kind of “burner relief” group that simply helps out. Why let things implode when we can work together to fix it on the playa? I know… Radical self reliance… But is it right to abandon people who have been scammed or who are overwhelmed? 30 experienced volunteers could have saved this camp.
Report comment
There was a massive pile of trash left by a group of RV campers in gypsy flower power, originally they wrote a note to moon shine saying “here is our $2000 worth of garbage”, presumably he ripped them off on power for their RVs, camp fees, bikes, or whatever.
I’ve heard the pile in this photo is larger than the pile they left behind, maybe so. I’ve also heard from reliable folks that Moon Shine was partying in Reno on Monday night, while the people who actually built the camp were trying & failing to clean up.
Also, if anyone here got robbed by Moon Shine, there are photos all over facebook showing (a) his promises about camp infrastructure and (b) another post by him saying that he needed to spend the camp fees on his own airfare, hotels, rental, and drugs. Just snag that photo and sent it to paypal with an explanation of what transactions should be reversed. there are folks who paid by credit card who already got their charges reversed.
Actually that’s maybe why Moon Shine made this a cheap plug-n-play camp for international people, so that they’d mostly be using debit cards not credit card, not sure. Anyways, Moon Shine is guilty of wire fraud and if enough people dispute the charges then maybe paypal will prosecute him.
Also, there is a rumor that Moon Shine sold his camp’s EA passes since nobody in gypsy flower power camp came EA except for artists with their own separate EA passes. Can anyone with BMOrg confirm this rumor? Were any gypsy flower power EA passes used? If so, those passes were sold for-profit, not used by the camp.
Report comment
There is afaik only two things Burning Man could’ve done to prevent this camp :
First, they could’ve maybe learned from previous year’s Gypsy Flower Power campers that Moon shine ran a scam. It’s tricky thought because he’s got some defenders. I’d imagine he gifts/sells some folks some drugs he buys using the camp fees, which makes them happy to have a playa hookup.
Second, they could’ve revoked the camp’s placement when nobody showed up by Sunday morning. No placement = No Gypsy Flower Power = Nobody intentionally leaving behind trash for Gypsy Flower Power. It’s again tricky though because artists with their own EA passes were already there and asking for the camp to keep it’s placement.
Report comment
Hello all, there are a ton of misrepresentations and rumors here. Clearly, the situation was awful and there was a breakdown of structure that led to a lord of the flies concept around moop. And there were lots of people trying to address this, which I am sure anyone on this blog would have done had they known. There was the camp mayor who was incompetent, and probably with a mental health issue. A deliberate thief, maybe, but I cant reconcile that with the fact that he did show up to the burn finally on Wednesday and left Monday night with a truck full of trash. He owes a lot of money, and folks on the closed FB group are demanding it back. Many now realize that he was incompetent. I recognized easily and early that his posting on FB before the burn were BS, reproducing other’s photos, etc., and assumed wrongly (for which i am deeply disappointed in myself) that everyone would realize this was a joke. This is not about RVs, or PNP camps that come in great varieties, or banning people – that is all against our principles. It is not about my magic is better than yours, or you cant experience magic in an RV unless you are elderly. I was in this camp (see my post above) in 2013 and 2014. None of this happened in 2013 – there was no breakdown of the principles. Nothing to ban for 2014. An important point is the camp was much smaller in 2013, and lots of fun. Folks acted like burners when Moonshine did not provide what was supposed to be there. But we all had what we needed and did not count on him, and shared with those that fell short. This year it was too big. Too many virgins. BMORG I am sure is discussing this, and needs to find better ways to prevent a situation for camps with poor planning. I saw one blog that was interesting – we have a city of 70,000. Any rationale public health perspective would provide trash removal, just like porta potties are provided. With all the trash that is stored for a week, it is only a matter of time that a bunch of people get sick. And although there is a ton of info about self-reliance, apparently the message needs to be better focused by BMORG and all of us using blogs, FB, etc.
Report comment
I’m going to be a virgin next year and I’ll need to find a plug and play camp… coming from Australia means I need to be prepared and creative to survive… I can’t bring my usual great for these kind of things… and that will mean saving twice as much just to ensure I don’t end up depending on others… If I can ensure it’s all going to be there I can participate 100%. I’m not rich- I’m 28, a full time student without a drivers license. Planning ahead is key!
Please don’t think banning P+P is the answer…choosing to pay someone to bring my shelter food and water might not be how you practice self reliance but it’s how I make sure I don’t need to beg for rice or water. :-)
And I fully intend on carrying add much moot out as I can get away with.
It does make me think I need to plan now rather than later to avoid being scammed… shesh. What are the reliable plug n play camps that don’t expect me to be a millionaire?
Report comment
unconfortable i wanted to be part of his moop team and gypsy team a few fb meetings about whats going.etc. so i bought allot of wastebags for gypsys and payed my fee for 2 150+20 spend.. (so i was writting burningman org if this is real and regist. camp / most cash was coming by green dot but they say thats my part to check cause there were no method to check (damm it )) so Jonny nutter was writting wired coments just 2 days before offical bm opened,missed uhaul booking,he bought just 100 kilo rice etc. put 30 early tix under a rock under the entry sign to black rock (i was feeling so stupid and scammed when i was looking in the night under a lot of rocks may get bitten by snakes by the entry of gateroad / no tix nowhere) he has to left playa for more tenth and shit he wanted to buy etc.blabla now its clear to me just hide from angry burners wich got no leading struckture …me and my ms diagnostic girl were very worried about a save organisized place on playa ,,,so we were looking for our old friends from ssv and they let us camp again with them, so i talked to some gypsys by toilett 4:30 H if they need bags or whats going on : one young blond guy just ^jelling these camp fucks us so heavy we are all on ourselves here survival on neighbours and jonny needs a big slap thats what he needed…, step by step i saw the mosik of scamming froud and destroing dreams of a little naive beliving folks… sorry for my bad grammatics , iam in shame that i was spending and supporting this Moonshine.jhonny Nutter (in germann : Nutte means Bitch)
Report comment
Coryn: Radical self-reliance means just that. Nobody NEEDS a PNP camp. How about, say, flying in to a major city, renting a minivan and buying the things you’ll need on your way up to the burn?
Report comment
Hey Coryn, you don’t need a P+P camp (which do tend to be for the wealthy) – just join a regular (but vouched for/verified) theme camp and provided you put in some graft at the camp and a donation to their kitty, you’ll find that a lot of your worries will be handled communally. You’ll almost certainly still need a tent, transportation, food, water, sunscreen etc. but you may find a bunch of people who can help you out with some of the logistics involved plus some good advice on what to do with your moop and grey water, as well as access to communal shade structures, kitchen area, moop bins and other amenities.
Report comment
This is how I feel about Burning Man:
http://www.elephantjournal.com/2014/09/from-burning-man-to-the-andes-sanan/
http://www.elephantjournal.com/2014/09/burning-man-behind-the-mask-david-reid/
:)
Report comment
All things contain the seeds of their own destruction.
Though, in this case, it looks like sprouts if not saplings.
Report comment
One thing missing from this conversation is that this guy pissed off DPW.
People who piss off DPW don’t stay fugitives from Playa justice for long.
If I were this guy, I wouldn’t show up at the Burn for a long, long time.
Report comment
Good ol’ Johnny Moonshine! I ran a registered theme camp, Great Balls of Fire, for five years on the playa, and in 2012 I suddenly found myself with 11 extra tickets that were sitting on my credit card (loooong story involving our fire conclave team that didn’t get accepted to perform for the first time in at least 8 years).
When I advertised the tickets (at face value, of course) Johnny contacted me saying he needed several for camp members. This was August 10th and I was sweating bullets to get them sold (STEP had just closed and then BMOrg released an extra 1000 tickets, IIRC). Johnny requested three, we had a long string of FB communications including shipping quotes, PayPal requirements to satisfy sellers protection, etc. and he told me he would be buying them. Five days later (10 days before BM started) he was still stringing me along with promises, and then he simply stopped replying to my messages.
(Luckily, after selling several at- and a couple tickets below face value, a week before BM a local burner angel swooped in, bought my remaining four tickets and donated them to a Nevada arts charity for a tax break she desperately needed.)
One of the tickets I had (not of the three Johnny promised to buy) I sold to Vince (3rd commenter). After BM he related to me what a mess up Johnny’s camp was, that promises weren’t kept, infrastructure that campers had paid for never materialized and so forth.
The next year on the DC Burners FB page, I saw Johnny posting messages to join his camp, Gypsy Flower Power. Because I love my peeps, I posted warnings about alleged false promises and to proceed with caution. I visited the Gypsy Flower Power FB page and noticed that several photos of supposed “past camps” were complete misrepresentations of what could be found at GFP, including one photo of Alex Gray’s camp, photos of other camp’s schwag (clearly not GFP because of identifiable logos), etc. When I called him out on it, he gave implausible responses, trying to cover his obvious gaffes.
I found out about this article from one of the former DC regional contacts, who remembered my posts on DC Burners. If folks haven’t seen this, it’s worth a look-see too!
burners[dot]me/2014/09/19/what-a-mess-p-n-p-and-moop-scandals-collide-in-sad-day-for-brc/
Report comment
One comment above was:
>> Second, they could’ve revoked the camp’s placement when nobody showed up by Sunday morning. No placement = No Gypsy Flower Power = Nobody intentionally leaving behind trash <<
If it would have been so easy we should have done this. EXPECTING UP TO 300 PEOPLE, I saved the HUGE space for these people, because i did have my own EA Pass, own tent, own water, own trash bag..
Feeling responsible and acting in accordance to this is my first principle independent from any BM principles! The chaos and mess would have been much worse if all these people would have not found any camp at night (most coming at nights).
i am fully aware that i paid for camp 25 $ and therefore i am guilty to be hanged, like most comments are telling me. Yes we failed. We failed in a) throwing this moon out and much more important to build up a NEW CAMP LEADERSHIP TEAM. Our hippies wanted to party, drugs, eat, sleep & hand around, litter the ground with zigarettes, beer cans and so on. I do not beliefe that anybody who is telling above what he might have done in my position would have been able to activate these party virgins. There was even a CORE TEAM in the Gypsy Camp with us, but they decided to stay away as much as possible to be not affiliated with the camp at all and proclaimed that they have mooped everything from thair tents and that is "end of discussion". Have spoken to BMIR (BM Internet Radio HEAD) and told the story on sunday i was only allowed to publish using their internet that people should buy bring all self reliance, food, tent, sleepbing bag, water for themselfes. He did not pick up the story in any way as i asked to do this. In my feeling i was asking spoiling the fun or these kind of problems are business as usual. I even spoke with two rangers about half an hour, they have to bring out one member as Moon Shine wanted to her out. but failed to get their attention enough to understand that this is a critical camp which will fail.
Clearly we did have enough buses and RV to bring out the stuff. No problem at all. The problem is to coordinate this, to ask these people and to deal with answers like this: "it is not my trash, we have kept things seperatly and so on" How to force them, this is not possible. Given this things developed and i would assume that there are also a plenty of camp mates they thought that this revenge is needed to kick Moon Shines ass. They did not think that they spoil the magic of the playa for all burners.
Why not rent a truck in reno coming back: I personally left playa with burner express bus and have to catch my flight back. Living in Reno would have been easier for these actions!
I can only say sorry about this moop desaster happened and hope that this scam artist Johny Nutter aka Moon Shine are not given permit to collect virgins for another huge village
with plenty of emty promises (see here for example: http://www.gofundme.com/18qpj8)
Report comment
Hello, I also know a person whom camped with Gypsy Flower power and was scammed of her money and had very little because she flew from Spain. She dealt with the guy from Hawaii and has a lot of info regarding the situation. Let me know if you would like her info.
there were many reports filed with Playa info also!
Please make sure he is black listed for ever!
Report comment
Coryn: On top of what Festibubble said, you’ve got lots of time to look on eplaya and other Burner communities for camps and villages with good reputations. Find one that feels like or a good fit or that does something you’d like to contribute to; even the big long running event camps need bodies to make things happen. But any size camp can be a great experience with good people. Volunteering’s also a good way for a solo traveler to find his feet. If you approach BM wanting to participate, not just have a vacation, you’ll most likely have a fantastic experience.
“PnP” gets thrown around a lot but whether for millionaires or poor backpackers it means selling a catered experience, where you’re just contributing cash for convenience. Most camps and villages have at least some communal infrastructure, at least an evap pond, but a decently run camp will have those things clearly spelled out and everyone otherwise as self sufficient as possible. It’s not uncommon for camps to have online spreadsheets of their budgets and schedules. Those are outliers but it’s a good sign of confidence.
And you don’t even need a placed camp. If you can find just a few other travelers, even Aussies you might meet before summer (I do know how big the place is), band together with a plan and your meager $$$ will go way father.
Report comment
Its not just this camp. Our group (located at 9:30 & C) going solo, was always picking up MOOP of all kind.
Everyone is saying “You cannot pin this on one person.” THATS HORSE SHIT! They can and should. Read the rules with setting up a theme camp or village. The blame ultimately falls on the camp organizer or “Mayor” of the village.
With that said, someone needs to start a website devoted to outright shaming those who feel the need to disrespect the playa and the principles. I have a number of photos I took of people that were stealing signs (a good one of an attractive couple stealing the “Do not drive on the esplanade” sign located at 9:30) and a number of people that were pissing on the playa at night. It was a real obstacle course at night because I was one of these fools that walked barefoot on the playa knowing and hearing the stories of “playa foot” when I needed to be more careful about getting pee foot. With that said, I did not get playa foot but the opposite. My feet have never felt so smooth before.
Bottom line. If you want to make a mess, go to Glastonbury, EDC, or any rodeo but stay the &%$@# away from Burning Man you Playa Pissers!
Report comment
Dear Red X Moop Map,
We are Camp Serendipity SCOUR our camp site and surrounding Camps for any signs of MOOP including the road in front of our site.
We collect MOOP all over Burning Man. We are amazed how much more MOOP there is after the Weekenders come.
But, when we left our site Sunday night on 8 between E & F, or Detroit and a melange of French Travelers, our site was spotless. No feathers, sparkles, spikes, bits of trash, grey water spills NOTHING.
After 4 years on the Playa, I am dismayed and shocked to see a nasty red X just a few inches behind our camp (our just where our Caravan was parked.
We even cleaned/looked again AFTER we moved the Caravan.
I know the people behind us was a Black Rock Ranger so, I am confident it was not them.
I am speechless. I don’t know who would put MOOP crap on our moop-free camp!
It is like next year, I want to be the LAST to leave. We take pride in LNT!
Papa of Camp Serendipity
Report comment
My camp was at 7 and I, and we had a lot of trouble with an RV company between I and J that tried to do an early land grab on basically the entire block. They conveniently left a red X on the moop map as well.
From what I’ve seen here, I think it might be best for all if the BM org were to simply disallow PNP camps which do not go through the BM org for tickets and payment. Instead of paying an operator $250 for entry, the operator registers with BM org and the customer pays BM org instead. The BM org forwards some of that money to the operator, but holds the rest in escrow in case stuff like this happens.
This allows the org to put a questionable operator on probation (and require more escrow), gives a bit of an ability to provide refunds for scam camps, and in general should help raise the quality of the camps. It wouldn’t solve the problem of scammers, but might help make it easier for people to find a trusted PNP camp.
Report comment
Coryn, there’s a thread on eplaya by a virgin who camped solo with what he brought in on the Burner Bus, including water & food, although another eplayan did loan him a cooler. So it is very possible to have a great burn with minimal infrastructure. He did this after getting a ticket just a couple of weeks before the burn too. What did he do? A LOT of research on eplaya in the time he had. The thread details exactly how he did it.
That said, joining a camp, or just joining up with a few others to create a camp does make the logistics easier. So start your planning now; get on eplaya & start reading about camps you might like to join, what type of stuff you can bring or can get in whatever city you end up flying into. Getting involved now will help you avoid the scammers, and help you figure out what you need and want for your first burn.
Report comment
Is there any means by which a camp can contact somebody to find out more information about what their specific red X is? Thanks!
Report comment
This is just the tip of the Ice Berg. Our sewage collection system is failing. Last year we saw a melt down of site services. Their drivers were told to get the cash first. People were clamoring to get rid of their sewage. This year we did not have that problem -Thank you site services ! However, a lot of people are not availing themselves of sewage collecting by site services .They are either to lazy or do not want to spend the money. They instead are dumping fecal matter into triple trash bags and dumping that into dumpsters,trailers, etc. It should be mandatory that everyone get dumped each day! I could go on but I won’t . We need some radical changes in Camp ethics. It has gotten out of hand !!! Please comment on your observations. Peace be with you
Report comment
I have to be straight with you guys I have a Camp. It is a large Camp. Our Camp has been called by BLM “The Poster Boy on how Camps should be run” No,we don’t cook meals,No we don’t have maid service, No ,we don’t have a bar or a bar tender, No we don’t provide Art Cars. We provide housing and we maintain that housing. Thats it!!! Whats more we do have a community ! Our clients come back year after year to be with their “BM Friends”. They get it ! They are fully involved ! Do they all “Get It ” No! Maybe someday they will. Putting all that aside we do have a problem. Lets see if we can’t work together and solve the problem/
Peace be with you I Get It !!
Report comment
this is such a sad example of where those folks who don’t care to follow the principles are ruining it for the rest of us. YOU ARE DONG IT WRONG!
i am normally against the shaming of people for not living up to others expectations, but for people who deliberately take advantage of others, and make a general bad time for everyone around them, i think ill make an exception.
for sure the guests at these PnP camps have some culpability, but there is only so much individuals can do once the burn is under way if there is no infrastructure set up. especially for camps this large. and the virgins don’t know enough about the culture to do it on their own. they need to be taught. sadly, it is not so easy even if BMorg did want to ban the scammers or the dirty PnP camps. its easy enough to work around any safeguards they might want to put in place to prevent it. where theres a will theres a way, and the d-bags looking to take advantage and profit off of others who don’t know any better have ALL THE WILL.
for all those who had experience with this camp: PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE share your experience in the lead up to future burns. keep an eye out for any promotions by those who scammed you, and do your part to inform as many people as you can to stay away from them. hopefully this experience hasn’t soured you on the burn altogether. what the burn needs is more people dedicated to sharing the experience and sharing themselves. come back again, be radically self reliant, live by the principles, and hold others to them as well.
what ideas do folks have to keep the riff raft at bay?
-how about an on playa registry for presale tickets?… if you signed up the summer before you can guarantee your ticket for next year as long as it is purchased by “X” date.
-im sure it would be unpopular, but maybe getting rid of the ticket transfer system and instead allowing ticket buy backs up until gates open. if you sell your ticket back to BMorg then it becomes available for another person to buy. this of course would require will call to be dramatically expanded (which already had some issue of its own this year)
-can we get a sort of big brother big sister program for virgin burners? just set them up with a more experienced burner who can take them under their wing and show the what the burn is about.
anyways, just my two cents for now
Report comment
This year was my first burn. I flew over from the UK with three friends. We brought some stuff on the plane with us, and the rest we picked up in san fran/reno and then donated, sold, or dumped afterwards.
I really don’t buy the argument that those coming from overseas need to rely on turnkey camps. Spend the money on equipping yourself and hiring your own van instead. Having to fly in doesn’t mean that you can’t be self-reliant.
Report comment
I would suggest that people flying in from abroad put some fucking thought into contributing to something interesting, meaningful and/or fun to Burning Man not just turning up to fucking watch.
NO SPECTATORS.
Report comment
Solve a thousand ticketing headaches as well as problems resulting from people buying tickets secondhand and not learning anything of the BM culture by implementing entirely online, electronic tickets!
Everyone must buy their ticket individually, and can transfer to someone else online, who must agree to having read the 10 principles and other info. Then at the gate, staff with tablets check names on the electronic list against IDs of the arrivals. No will call disaster, no lost tickets, and ability for BM org to reach every participant individually.
Report comment
I would humorously suggest that Mr. Moonshine should be slipped a mickey, then have his pockets stuffed with whatever available spare intoxicating substances that can be found, then be left to sleep it off where the BLM & Sheriffs & Rangers can find him easily. Sure, he’d have plenty of ‘splainin’ to do; but he’s pretty good at talking his way out of things, right?
Report comment
very sad to see moop on this scale, and equally sad to hear of the issues people have had with this camp. I am also quite surprised the at the willingness of some people to just hand over a couple of hundred dollars to someone they’ve never met, and have only seen on Facebook, to then travel hundreds and sometimes thousands of miles, to then discover that the whole thing is basically a scam. Duh.. Come on people, as much as we would like to live in a world where you can trust everyone you come across, in reality this is massively wide of the mark. where there is money involved people will always try and rip you off. Sad, but true.
Report comment
I am no one,
Sad to hear people are getting taken advantage of. This guy scamming people. I have faith in our universe he will suffer for what hes done. Must be terrible living a life on earth in hell.
Self-Reliance. Enough said
I’m curious, how did the surrounding camps not see this mess? Or the people who drove by the pile. Along with the other piles of trash on the Playa. Not blaming other camps or defending the camp for their mess. I believe when it comes to MOOP, we are all responsible for what is left behind. We all will learn from this and do better next year checking not just your own camp but taking a peak at your surroundings neighbors.
I don’t know if anyone has been banned from Burning Man before. But that’s a big one. I’m going to take a long time to think about that one. Hasn’t come up in my world yet.
Love you all
Report comment
I understand this map reflects the worst moop, and I am totally shocked to see a red x on our camp since we were the last to leave – and I’m a moop fanatic! I’m concerned items or trash were abandoned at our spot since it was completely empty when we left. Is there someone I can contact in the 7 & C quadrant to find out what was found there? We have always been green and, with a red x already, I’m assuming that will mean a red rating for our camp. We are all so sad about this possibility. Thanks for your help!
Report comment
My wife and myself have been blessed to attend BM long enough to have earned the “vet” label.
My BM doctrine is simple. ALWAYS bring your own shit.
You don’t need a fucking PnP…..We used – we’re relocated West since – to fly in to Sacramento from the other side of the country, had one small tent with us[to store food and water…get it?], pick up our rented van [which we slept in], rent a bike from a local store and shop in Reno for all our basic needs. No shower needed[use wet towels!]. We never left a single srews behind us and pick up moop we come across on the playa or elsewhere.
Over the years, we gained experience by volunteering and other camp/art building participation.
To keep this post short….
We didn’t attend the past 2 years but made it this year and we were CHOCKED by the increased amount of trash[can’t call that stuff “moop” any longer…] we came across. And don’t get me started about the abandoned bikes…..
It’s utterly saddening, not to say discussed, to see what’s going on from this aspect.
Some people just don’t give a shit and seem to assume that it’s ok….
And I write this as someone that was “gifted” a bucket full of human waste from another camp/burner asshole that left b4 us and dumped it next to our truck…
Report comment
Yo dudes and dudettes, Mahalo from Hawaii!
I know you all are not diggin all the moop mess we made this year, but I just wanted to drop a note and set the record straight!
IT WAS NOT MY FAULT.
First off, all these europeans showed up and trashed up the place. I told them to take their moop but they just bailed out man, total bummer, no respect.
Then it was those rich plug and play camps which used our camp as a dumping ground for all their shit. It was caravancicle dude, they put all their dirty oil bottles and shit in our camp figuring us flower people would totally be their scapegoats! Down with the 1%, we should totally protest them next year.
Good news, next year I’m going to re-launch the camp, and I’m going to really do a better job.
What I could use from all my fellow burners is a little bit of funding to make sure that I can get my situation all sorted before this blows up.
I’ve got a kickstarter/gofundme thing here, the money will go towards giving the DPW workers some funds for the extra work they had to do this year. I’ll make sure it gets to them.
http://www.gofundme.com/igm38
Please donate as much as you can. Any donations over $1,000 will get a free ticket from me next year as well as VIP seating in our Gypsy Flower Power Camp.
We will provide everything you need for an amazing burn, power, yurts, shade structures, a fully functioning shower with evap pond, performances, a community kitchen, everything your heart desires. Can’t wait to camp with all you lovely folks in 15
Jonny “Mahalo” Moonshine ( peace and love )
Report comment
I like the idea of a rating system base on the 10 principle and number of complaints against the camp lead. You could have a simple 1 to 10 scale for each principle and an overall rating and post it for all to see. Allowing the community to make a informed decision about joining a camp. It could look something like this.
camp name – Gypsy Flower Power camp
Radical Inclusion- 0
Gifting -0
Decommodification 0
Radical Self-reliance 0
Radical Self-expression 0
Communal Effort 0
Civic Responsibility 0
Leaving No Trace 0
Participation 0
Immediacy 0
Overall rating -0
Camp lead- Jonny Moonshine
Number of years camp has existed – 4
Number of complaints against camp lead – 200
If it is a new camp you could write this camp has not been rated, if it is a new lead say this lead has not been rated.If you get a bad rating no one is going to camp with you problem solved. I get abandon or defector minions every year in my camp often they are in tears. We let them vent, feed them and give them shelter. More often than not they are virgin burners that are being taken advantage of by for profit camps or large camps that expect too much from them.
Peace
Dr. Baron von Realz Esq.
“More magic less bullshit”
– Dr. Baron von Realz Esq.
Report comment
Unfortunately, this is becoming a commonplace BM scam. People offering room and board for a price. I have always felt uneasy about people claiming space as their own and selling real estate. This is obviously in direct conflict with several of the BM principles: commodification and self reliance. What do you expect to get when you pay to rely on someone else at an event where not selling stuff and self reliance are the core principles. That being said, I hope everyone will warn their friends that this scam is commonplace.
Report comment
I question giving preferential treatment, ie, directed tickets and lots of early passes to any John on the spot. This treatment enables the for profit camps.
PnPs are gated communities. Are they really theme camps. Do they have events or provide some thing other than housing their members.
Communal camps, are like PnPs. They do provide services to their members, like the PnPs. But what do they do for the city, besides feed and house their paying members.
A theme camp DOES SOMETHING. It offers a gift or gifts to our community. They adds value to BRC and are INCLUSIVE. They DO something more, they should potentially serve all the city’s residents.
One encourages participation. One encourages tourist.
Report comment
What a terrible situation! I new I didn’t like PnP, this crystalizes that opinion. Had I known, I would have donated extra food to those hungry, victimized people. I never eat half of what I bring. I even had an extra tent and blankets I could have shared. In the past, I would have taken out as much of that mountain of trash as possible. I didn’t see it, but now I wonder if that might not be the right thing to do. I understand the victims’ anger, but they should have taken their fair share of trash anyway. On the other hand, if the site was left clean, maybe none of this would have come out, and Jonny Moonshine would have gotten away with his scam. BTW, absolutely perfect name for a con artist.
Report comment
Wow. Caravanicicle had a brochure advertising the Burning Man experience-it was being SOLD as a commodity. This obviously violates a major principle of the event. D’uh! ALL of these for-profit PnPs should be banned. Or if in the case of the super rich ones, keep them, but make them camp outside BRC, further away on the playa. They can be shuttled in like tourists. Because these tourists are practicing radical exclusion, they need to be set apart, just like they are in the default world, just as if they were an exclusive club or private hotel. If you won’t ban them, at least Move ’em Out of BRC!
Report comment
Lots of comments and I did not read them all. I am curious what is done about the enormous amount of MOOP on the road leading to BRC.
Report comment
It’s a very difficult situation… How would you police a ban on PnP? What’s the difference between paying to share an RV or shipping truck or generator and PnP? The default world demands cash for these things before we bring them to the city.
A few years back… We were camping in Big Sur. We really like to camp up on the ridge, so we can hike and bike the spine. But it’s also a preferred spot for big organized camping (basically Rave-lite; you actually can get permits for group camping.) We came across a pile like that in the dry reservoir (It hadn’t rained that year at all) and spent an entire day sorting the recyclables from the trash instead of enjoying out camping.
Eventually in the trash we found the receipt for dumping fees and tickets to a group event (and identifying documents) – whoever was entrusted with the trash took the cash and left the trash. Everyone in the camp had dutifully picked up and trusted him to take it to the transfer station. It was very sad, and we weren’t able to carry out much of the trash (how much can you fit in a little car, anyhow? We took six bags, left …eight plus furnishings). We reported it to State Wardens, and my spouse tracked down the organizer via the ticket information. What else can you do?
That’s why community effort – and seeing the trash – even if we all pitch in and clean it up, is important. So people later can know what to look for. And sometimes, who.
Report comment
hey raza!
hey peoples
que onda?
nice job
gracias a todas
y toditicos
keep it clean
clean clean
viva el black rock
rock le black
rock and rock
rock
thanks to all of you
to all of us
lets do it again
Report comment
Don’t invite them back…it’s that simple. If you pack it in and can’t pack out don’t come back. I am not as nice as the rest of you…
Report comment
NO WAY did our camp leave any “large scale moop”. Somebody MUST have dropped their stuff off at our camp.
Report comment
What’s up, every time i used to check weboog posts hhere in the early houyrs in the daylight, as i like to find out more and more.
Report comment
Comments are closed.